N54Tech.com - Your Source for International Turbo BMW Racing Discussion
(#1)
Old
RadarContact's Avatar
RadarContact RadarContact is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 283
Join Date: Sep 2016
Car: 2006 E46 330cic ZHP
Default Heat reflective material for Chargepipe - 07-19-2017, 03:45 PM

I bought some of this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thermo-tec 13575 Adhesive Backed Heat Barrier for a project and decided to cover my Chargepipe with the remainder of it.

Figured it couldn't hurt since this stuff reflects radiant heat off of /away from things. Since my charge pipe was getting hot just from being in my engine bay, I wrapped it.

Don't know if/how much diff it'll make, but what the hell.


--------------------------------------------------------------
2010 535i M-Sport w/Sport AT, Alpine White w/Natural Leather, type-135 wheels w/spacers & Coilovers --- JB4 G5 ISO Trebila (Map-6) Custom Tune, Custom Meth Setup w/dual CM5s, VRSF 3" free-flow D/Ps, MMPe DCIs, Wagner 1060 Stepped FMIC, VRSF Chargepipe/Tial BOV, BMS Oil Cooler
Reply With Quote
(#2)
Old
LessIsMore's Avatar
LessIsMore LessIsMore is offline
Inner Circle Member
 
Posts: 485
Join Date: Aug 2012
Car: 2009 535i Sport SAT
Default 07-20-2017, 03:06 PM

This was one reason I went with the polished ER CP instead of black (both alum), but no idea if it makes a measurable difference. Couldn't hurt.


2009 535i Sport
JB4 G5 | MHD E85 Hybrid BEF | VTT GC Lites | VTT Inlets | VTT Outlet | VRSF 3" D-P's | VRSF 7" FMIC | Fuel-It Stage 2 LPFP | Fuel-It TBI | BMS DCI | ER CP | Forge DV's | 3.5 Bar TMAP | RB PCV | Koni FSD | 15mm Rear Spacers
Reply With Quote
(#3)
Old
fredcase fredcase is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 258
Join Date: May 2015
Car: 07 335xi
Default 07-27-2017, 08:52 PM

Any difference in iat?


2007 335xi MT, JB4, bms dci, 5"vrsf stepped fmic, **'s, vrsf full silicone inlets, mpp silicone outlets, er chargepipe, hyperboost diverter valves
Reply With Quote
(#4)
Old
RadarContact's Avatar
RadarContact RadarContact is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 283
Join Date: Sep 2016
Car: 2006 E46 330cic ZHP
Default 07-28-2017, 06:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredcase
Any difference in iat?
Yes, 10!! That's highway, but is also the only place I get steady/consistent readings/results. IAT was about 20 over ambient, now between 8-12. Not bad!
And all of a sudden im getting 2mph better gas mileage, and that's the only thing I've done to the car lately, so...?
This, all in the hottest part of the year in northwest Florida. 97 at 5:00pm yesterday. Can't wait till fall!


--------------------------------------------------------------
2010 535i M-Sport w/Sport AT, Alpine White w/Natural Leather, type-135 wheels w/spacers & Coilovers --- JB4 G5 ISO Trebila (Map-6) Custom Tune, Custom Meth Setup w/dual CM5s, VRSF 3" free-flow D/Ps, MMPe DCIs, Wagner 1060 Stepped FMIC, VRSF Chargepipe/Tial BOV, BMS Oil Cooler
Reply With Quote
(#5)
Old
CLTEURO CLTEURO is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 116
Join Date: Aug 2015
Car: 08 335i 6MT Coupe
Default 08-12-2017, 12:20 PM

Logs?


2008 E92 335i Coupe 6MT | Apex Arc-8 18x9.5 | MHD: Stage 2 93oct | CP-e Charge Pipe | Active Autowerke BOV | DCI | VRSF C*****S D*******S | VRSF 5" FMIC | Cyba Air Scoops | BMW PE Mod
Reply With Quote
(#6)
Old
Jeffman's Avatar
Jeffman Jeffman is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 197
Join Date: Sep 2011
Car: 335xi
Default 08-17-2017, 05:52 PM

How about a photo of what it looks like?


2008 E90 335xi AT 63K MILES
MHD CUSTOM 93 OCT 24 PSI, N20 TMAP, FUEL-IT STG 2 LPFP, cPE CHARGE PIPE, HELIX IC, FORGE DV BLUE SPRINGS, BMS DCI, BMS T-STAT DELETE, BMS OCC, RB PCV, KW-V1 COILOVERS, APEX ARC-8, 235/265 MICHELIN PSS, xHP STAGE 3, SCOOPS
PR IGNITION - COMING SOON!
Reply With Quote
(#7)
Old
RadarContact's Avatar
RadarContact RadarContact is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 283
Join Date: Sep 2016
Car: 2006 E46 330cic ZHP
Default 09-10-2017, 07:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLTEURO
Logs?
Sorry, it's not something I can take off and then put back on to do log runs. It's adhesive backed, and is now permanent.


--------------------------------------------------------------
2010 535i M-Sport w/Sport AT, Alpine White w/Natural Leather, type-135 wheels w/spacers & Coilovers --- JB4 G5 ISO Trebila (Map-6) Custom Tune, Custom Meth Setup w/dual CM5s, VRSF 3" free-flow D/Ps, MMPe DCIs, Wagner 1060 Stepped FMIC, VRSF Chargepipe/Tial BOV, BMS Oil Cooler
Reply With Quote
(#8)
Old
RadarContact's Avatar
RadarContact RadarContact is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 283
Join Date: Sep 2016
Car: 2006 E46 330cic ZHP
Default 09-10-2017, 07:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffman
How about a photo of what it looks like?
Let me see if any recent photos shows a good pic of it. Otherwise I'll take one and post it after this Irma-b1tch gets out of my backyard!! Lol


--------------------------------------------------------------
2010 535i M-Sport w/Sport AT, Alpine White w/Natural Leather, type-135 wheels w/spacers & Coilovers --- JB4 G5 ISO Trebila (Map-6) Custom Tune, Custom Meth Setup w/dual CM5s, VRSF 3" free-flow D/Ps, MMPe DCIs, Wagner 1060 Stepped FMIC, VRSF Chargepipe/Tial BOV, BMS Oil Cooler
Reply With Quote
(#9)
Old
RadarContact's Avatar
RadarContact RadarContact is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 283
Join Date: Sep 2016
Car: 2006 E46 330cic ZHP
Default 09-10-2017, 07:46 PM

Name:  IMG_6124.JPG
Views: 210
Size:  95.5 KB

Name:  IMG_6125.JPG
Views: 206
Size:  98.2 KB

Name:  IMG_6126.JPG
Views: 208
Size:  96.2 KB

These don't really show it at all, but I don't know if I can take any that do either...unless I remove the intake cones. But, it's the same material I used to cover my meth tank, on the right side, silver reflective.

// Radar //


--------------------------------------------------------------
2010 535i M-Sport w/Sport AT, Alpine White w/Natural Leather, type-135 wheels w/spacers & Coilovers --- JB4 G5 ISO Trebila (Map-6) Custom Tune, Custom Meth Setup w/dual CM5s, VRSF 3" free-flow D/Ps, MMPe DCIs, Wagner 1060 Stepped FMIC, VRSF Chargepipe/Tial BOV, BMS Oil Cooler
Reply With Quote
(#10)
Old
rcpro88 rcpro88 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 98
Join Date: Aug 2016
Car: 535i
Default 09-11-2017, 04:05 PM

Wrapping your charge pipe with any kind of thermal tape is a waste of time. The reason for an FMIC or any intercooler is because when the charged air passes through all the channels, surface area exposed to the aluminium is maximized, thus increasing efficiency.
The surface area of metal the air touches when it passes through the charge pipe is incremental when compared to an intercooler of any kind. Also keep in mind the amount of time air is in the chargepipe.
Note that the charge pipe is on the cold side of the engine, so things typically won't get much cooler than they already are.
If you want your IAT's to drop, run 50/50 meth and water along with E40 in your tank.


VRSF Inlets, Chargepipe, **'s, FMIC
HKS BOV, BMS DCI, BMS Meth Kit
JB4 w/MHD-BMS E85 Backend Flash w/Nexus 7
Custom Map 6 21.5 psi (E70 mix)
Walbro 450 LPFP - 4 Bar TMAP Sensor - Muff Delete
SAT Transmission Flash/retrofit (Thanks to Wedge!)
AD Engineering Oil thermostat - Rob Beck PCV Valve
Gloss Black BMW M359 M3 Competition Wheels
Continental Extreme Contact DWS06 Tires
Installed all the parts myself.
Reply With Quote
(#11)
Old
RadarContact's Avatar
RadarContact RadarContact is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 283
Join Date: Sep 2016
Car: 2006 E46 330cic ZHP
Default 09-11-2017, 06:55 PM

Well, I don't know about all that, lol...it's the last air to be "exposed" to the engine environment before mixing with the fuel. I do know that my charge pipe used to be too hot to touch if I came home and popped the hood, and now it's cool enough to rest my balls on (figuratively speaking, they don't actually reach).

My IATs definitely dropped after doing it and my mileage seemed to improve about 1-2 mpg as well.
I don't have proof of exactly how much the IATs dropped because I didn't record anyruns on the same day, same temp, everything exactly the same same same before and after I wrapped it. And not to be rude, but also don't really care if anyone believes me or not. That's the great thing about having a very low GAF factor. 😉

I use a 50/50 WMI system, but can't get E85 in my area (yet?), but will go with E30-40 once I can.

Thanks.

// Radar //


--------------------------------------------------------------
2010 535i M-Sport w/Sport AT, Alpine White w/Natural Leather, type-135 wheels w/spacers & Coilovers --- JB4 G5 ISO Trebila (Map-6) Custom Tune, Custom Meth Setup w/dual CM5s, VRSF 3" free-flow D/Ps, MMPe DCIs, Wagner 1060 Stepped FMIC, VRSF Chargepipe/Tial BOV, BMS Oil Cooler
Reply With Quote
(#12)
Old
rcpro88 rcpro88 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 98
Join Date: Aug 2016
Car: 535i
Default 09-12-2017, 03:05 PM

RadarContact,

You're saying thermal wrapping your charge pipe dropped your IAT's and increased your MPG's by 1-2 MPG?
Get some real proof of this, other factors like traffic, time of day/sunlight to gas(octane varies regardless what the pump says) have a much greater chance of effecting your MPG than a slight IAT drop.
I don't care if you have a low GAF factor. You're ignorance is yours to own and my opinion is one of a mechanical engineer; but I recommend to take a thermo dynamics course.

Readers beware: Posts/answers by RadarContact may be inaccurate or wrong and claims no responsibility to any damage to your car the information has done. Take them with a grain of salt. Keep in mind this applies for all things read online.

Your friend,

A mechanical engineer.


VRSF Inlets, Chargepipe, **'s, FMIC
HKS BOV, BMS DCI, BMS Meth Kit
JB4 w/MHD-BMS E85 Backend Flash w/Nexus 7
Custom Map 6 21.5 psi (E70 mix)
Walbro 450 LPFP - 4 Bar TMAP Sensor - Muff Delete
SAT Transmission Flash/retrofit (Thanks to Wedge!)
AD Engineering Oil thermostat - Rob Beck PCV Valve
Gloss Black BMW M359 M3 Competition Wheels
Continental Extreme Contact DWS06 Tires
Installed all the parts myself.
Reply With Quote
(#13)
Old
RadarContact's Avatar
RadarContact RadarContact is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 283
Join Date: Sep 2016
Car: 2006 E46 330cic ZHP
Default 09-12-2017, 08:39 PM

-yes
- don't need it, because I'm not trying to convince anyone, including you, to follow me in my craziness :
- my ignorance IS MINE, and I'm very proud of you that you completed college

Your friend,
An Air Traffic Controller...wanna compare paychecks, college boy??


--------------------------------------------------------------
2010 535i M-Sport w/Sport AT, Alpine White w/Natural Leather, type-135 wheels w/spacers & Coilovers --- JB4 G5 ISO Trebila (Map-6) Custom Tune, Custom Meth Setup w/dual CM5s, VRSF 3" free-flow D/Ps, MMPe DCIs, Wagner 1060 Stepped FMIC, VRSF Chargepipe/Tial BOV, BMS Oil Cooler
Reply With Quote
(#14)
Old
dubluv17 dubluv17 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 33
Join Date: May 2016
Car: 2008 135i
Default 09-13-2017, 02:28 PM

It's true. If you want cooling to happen post turbos, you use an intercooler. Heat transfer almost entirely happens at the point where the air is touching the
surface of what it's contained in (in this case, intercooler or charge pipe). An intercooler takes a large amount of air and breaks it up into many, smaller divisions and allows them to shed heat through the fins. The more channels and fins in an intercooler, the more exposed surface area, the more the cooling. The trade off is more pressure drop. If you have less channels, then naturally they become larger in diameter. Only the air that is in contact with the metal is undergoing significant heat transfer. All the other air just passes through the channel. So now if you imagine air going through a charge pipe, think about how much air goes through it without ever contacting the pipe. That, combined with the velocity, is why heat transfer from the pipe to the intake air is negligible in this situation.
Reply With Quote
(#15)
Old
RadarContact's Avatar
RadarContact RadarContact is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 283
Join Date: Sep 2016
Car: 2006 E46 330cic ZHP
Default 09-13-2017, 04:45 PM

Ok, theoretically that sounds good. But also, according to what you are saying, I could intentionally HEAT UP my aluminum charge pipe to, say, 200 and it would make no difference to the air passing through all 24" of it because very little of the air actually touches it?

Seems like common sense has sorta gone out the window here. If I protect the pipe from the hot-as-f**k engine compartment, you guys are saying that I will see no benefit whatsoever? Okay, I'm not saying I'm right, or you guys are wrong necessarily. I just don't see any disadvantage to it. I'm leaving it on, because it definitely can't hurt.

{Disclaimer for all of the mechanical/electrical/environmental/any of the other 37 types of engineers: I'm leaving my heat wrap on; I'm not advocating for anyone else to go out and do this.}
Fair enough? Geesh.

// Radar //


--------------------------------------------------------------
2010 535i M-Sport w/Sport AT, Alpine White w/Natural Leather, type-135 wheels w/spacers & Coilovers --- JB4 G5 ISO Trebila (Map-6) Custom Tune, Custom Meth Setup w/dual CM5s, VRSF 3" free-flow D/Ps, MMPe DCIs, Wagner 1060 Stepped FMIC, VRSF Chargepipe/Tial BOV, BMS Oil Cooler
Reply With Quote
(#16)
Old
dubluv17 dubluv17 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 33
Join Date: May 2016
Car: 2008 135i
Default 09-13-2017, 07:33 PM

Yeah, it's not hurting anything. I think rcpro88 was just a little turned off by your mpg claims and all that. But yeah, it's definitely not increasing your IATs!
Reply With Quote
(#17)
Old
rcpro88 rcpro88 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 98
Join Date: Aug 2016
Car: 535i
Default 09-13-2017, 10:07 PM

As a person with a home machine shop in his basement, I'm a big fan of making the perfect thing if i cant buy it for a reasonable price. I just don't want anyone wasting their time/money trying this or something similar.

Hear this: if ambient temperature in your engine bay on the cold side while driving on the highway is 120F, then your charge pipe is around 120F and so will your power steering reservoir, intake manifold etc
Heating up your charge pipe to 200F would be significantly hotter than ambient on the cold side of your engine bay. So yes, you may actually see a significant temperature IAT increase - but you will need to constantly be heating the charge pipe as you are driving. As ambient air will lower charge pipe temp as well as air passing through it as IAT's never get near 200F. Aluminum charge ***** radiate heat/cool better than steel ones. Your idea of cooling the charge pipe would work, but you would need to lower the charge ***** temperature significantly below ambient of cold side engine bay. Like wrapping the charge pipe with thin copper tubing and running coolant through it to a heat exchanger located in a place where ambient is significantly less than under your hood. You would still want to add a few long fins inside to add more surface area but not restrict air flow.


VRSF Inlets, Chargepipe, **'s, FMIC
HKS BOV, BMS DCI, BMS Meth Kit
JB4 w/MHD-BMS E85 Backend Flash w/Nexus 7
Custom Map 6 21.5 psi (E70 mix)
Walbro 450 LPFP - 4 Bar TMAP Sensor - Muff Delete
SAT Transmission Flash/retrofit (Thanks to Wedge!)
AD Engineering Oil thermostat - Rob Beck PCV Valve
Gloss Black BMW M359 M3 Competition Wheels
Continental Extreme Contact DWS06 Tires
Installed all the parts myself.
Reply With Quote
(#18)
Old
RadarContact's Avatar
RadarContact RadarContact is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 283
Join Date: Sep 2016
Car: 2006 E46 330cic ZHP
Default 09-18-2017, 11:00 AM

I got you. Yeah, as I tried to say in my original post...I had no idea if it would do any good.
I wasn't sure if I was going to be keeping hot air from heating up my charge pipe or keeping the charge pipe from being able to dissipate heat.

I can say this though, as a fact: my AIT (JB4 app) is usually about 10 (8-11) different from my car's dashboard-displayed outside ambient temp as I drive to/from work. When I get into stop/go city driving it'll go up another 5 or so. IF I have to get back in the car to run errands after it's been sitting for a while (30-60 min) as I often have to, the temps are the same as (above). However, they used to be much higher initially and then would take highway driving to cool down to (above) again. Never would cool down if I stayed in town/city.
So I have defeated a heat-soaking issue, if just even a temporary one. I think that's good.

The rest, well, I can't say because I did no testing and have no control data to compare.

I think this is best left as a maybe.

P.s.
Jealous about your machine shop!!


--------------------------------------------------------------
2010 535i M-Sport w/Sport AT, Alpine White w/Natural Leather, type-135 wheels w/spacers & Coilovers --- JB4 G5 ISO Trebila (Map-6) Custom Tune, Custom Meth Setup w/dual CM5s, VRSF 3" free-flow D/Ps, MMPe DCIs, Wagner 1060 Stepped FMIC, VRSF Chargepipe/Tial BOV, BMS Oil Cooler
Reply With Quote
(#19)
Old
RadarContact's Avatar
RadarContact RadarContact is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 283
Join Date: Sep 2016
Car: 2006 E46 330cic ZHP
Default 11-13-2017, 06:58 AM

Someone had the same idea as me, but they did some decent testing:

http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...de-FMIC-piping

// Radar //


--------------------------------------------------------------
2010 535i M-Sport w/Sport AT, Alpine White w/Natural Leather, type-135 wheels w/spacers & Coilovers --- JB4 G5 ISO Trebila (Map-6) Custom Tune, Custom Meth Setup w/dual CM5s, VRSF 3" free-flow D/Ps, MMPe DCIs, Wagner 1060 Stepped FMIC, VRSF Chargepipe/Tial BOV, BMS Oil Cooler
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2007 - 2017, N54tech.com