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Question I want a driver's-side under-hood meth tank! - 02-14-2017, 06:16 PM

Now that the big oem airbox is gone, it just makes so much sense, to me at least, to mount a water/meth (mix) tank between the PS reservoir and the headlight/WW reservoir...right over the wheel well liner.

1) anyone know of an OEM WINDSHIELD WASHER tank that fits? How about a 2007-2011 Bmw 3-Series Tank, p/n 61677157146, maybe?

2) anyone think this is a bad idea?? My only concern is fire, but...since the blue stuff we use for our windshield is basically boost juice...if I'm not worried about it, then why worry about the water/meth mix?

3) do I need to mount the pump a certain way (height wise) compared to the tank and nozzles? Thought I read somewhere that tank highest, then pump, then nozzles. Ala Gravity prime??

Tell me your thoughts!!

Thanks,
// Radar //

Last edited by RadarContact; 02-14-2017 at 06:26 PM..
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Default 02-17-2017, 06:37 AM

There's no reason not to do it. I've seen kits (Snow performance) for other makes of vehicles that have under hood mounts. If you have the space then it's probably the ideal location; shorter wiring, lines, etc. Quicker purging as well. I may attempt to do the same thing when I get my kit, as long as I can find the room to do a clean install.


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Default 02-17-2017, 06:42 AM

Thanks for the reply. Sanity check complete! Lol

Yeah, I've got this gigantic area behind the DS headlight that would be perfect.
Need to make a trip to my local junk yard for some ideas.


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Default 02-23-2017, 03:31 AM

I have a universal tank from advanced mounted behind my front bumper on the driver side corner. I'll come up with a better solution soon but that space works alright.
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Default 02-23-2017, 06:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOT808
I have a universal tank from advanced mounted behind my front bumper on the driver side corner. I'll come up with a better solution soon but that space works alright.
Well, that's exactly what I'm wanting to do, but want to find one that fits "clean".

Can you post a pic or text me one? Like to see the fitment. I can pm you my text number.

Thanks,
// Radar //


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Default 02-24-2017, 09:45 AM

What capacity are you looking for?

How about a factory coolant reservoir? Has fittings for lines, and OEM caps made for it that you can use on the unneeded ports - but you would need adapters to fit the meth setup I'm sure.

Not sure how you're going to be able to get a tank high enough that the injection nozzles will be on a lower plane. Pump is probably not an issue, and makes sense there.


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Default 02-24-2017, 02:59 PM

A gallon would probably be enough, I would think.

I'll look into that...I was kind of pre-occupied on washer tanks, so that gives me more to look at. Thanks.

I think the tank can be up (just barely) higher if it's shaped right.

Keep thinking!! Lol

// Radar //


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Exclamation 03-08-2017, 07:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
What capacity are you looking for?

How about a factory coolant reservoir? Has fittings for lines, and OEM caps made for it that you can use on the unneeded ports - but you would need adapters to fit the meth setup I'm sure.

Not sure how you're going to be able to get a tank high enough that the injection nozzles will be on a lower plane. Pump is probably not an issue, and makes sense there.
I did a pic search for reservoir tanks...WOW, you nailed it, brother! There are SO MANY that may fit nicely in there. Particularly the ones for the Toy RAV4, and the Chrysler 300 look especially promising.
They are cheap too.

Only concern is if the plastic Coolant reservoir tanks will be okay with the 50/50 meth/water mix. I would think so. ??

The capacities might be a little small, but I'm willing to compromise there, no big deal really.

And as far as the tank and pump being higher than the nozzles...I was thinking about that, because that's what they tell you to do. BUT if I mounted the setup on the floor of the trunk, it would be WAY below the nozzles. Right?
Hmmm...

// Radar //


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Default 03-08-2017, 08:34 AM

I thought we already talked about this here....
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45223

Tank needs to be higher than pump and nozzles to have them gravity fed and not get starved for fluid. Running an engine bay mounted tank requires worrying about pump exposure to the elements and thus higher chance of failure. The tank may also be exposed to more contaiminats since they're vented and thus result in a higher likely hood of clogging.

It's more important the tank is higher than the pump so you won't starve the pump and burn it out.


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Default 03-08-2017, 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowon
I thought we already talked about this here....
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45223

Tank needs to be higher than pump and nozzles to have them gravity fed and not get starved for fluid. Running an engine bay mounted tank requires worrying about pump exposure to the elements and thus higher chance of failure. The tank may also be exposed to more contaiminats since they're vented and thus result in a higher likely hood of clogging.

It's more important the tank is higher than the pump so you won't starve the pump and burn it out.
We did, and I'm not debating that it's the BEST option.

But in reality, most people mount their tanks with pump underneath it to the trunk floor, right? At least that's how these things are portrayed in the pics that accompany the products. So yes, that puts the pump below the tank but puts both below the nozzles does it not?
Wouldn't all three of these examples break those guidelines?

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I think the other two issues could be addressed to make minimal impact, with a little engineering. Protecting the pump from the weather doesn't seem too daunting of a task, and making sure the tank isn't put together sloppy is something I would strive to do regardless.
I know Gale Banks has its customers use the windshield washer tank and everything gets mounted in the engine bay. Our system doesn't seem to be (fundamentally) any different. ??

// Radar //


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Default 03-08-2017, 11:33 AM

Just FYI, here are the guidelines given by Banks:

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Default 03-08-2017, 11:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarContact
We did, and I'm not debating that it's the BEST option.

But in reality, most people mount their tanks with pump underneath it to the trunk floor, right? At least that's how these things are portrayed in the pics that accompany the products. So yes, that puts the pump below the tank but puts both below the nozzles does it not?
Wouldn't all three of these examples break those guidelines?

Attachment 60530

Attachment 60531

Attachment 60532

I think the other two issues could be addressed to make minimal impact, with a little engineering. Protecting the pump from the weather doesn't seem too daunting of a task, and making sure the tank isn't put together sloppy is something I would strive to do regardless.
I know Gale Banks has its customers use the windshield washer tank and everything gets mounted in the engine bay. Our system doesn't seem to be (fundamentally) any different. ??

// Radar //
That's what check valves are for they prevent the back flow of fluid. Mounting in engine bay still doesn't put the pump and tank above the nozzles it actually makes it harder since you have to pump fluid upwards. If you have it placed in the trunk the downward pressure of water level in the tank should be enough to keep fluid pushed out of the lines towards the nozzles so long as fluid level is sufficient. Check valves are super important if you don't want hydrolock issues.

Engineering a pump case is possible, but there's not much room in the engine bay or wheel well for a case with adequate air flow, and these pumps can overheat.

You can you a pcv vent filter and barb fitting to vent the tank and solve that contaminant issue. Just can't let the filter get wet or it may suck in water over time.

IMO it's best to just mount in the trunk, but do whatever you feel is best.


2017 BMW M2 - Alpine White, 6MT, Fully Loaded
Mods: Stock for now

2016 Porsche 911 (991) GT3 RS: white, PDK, carbon ceramic brakes, Fully loaded
Mods: Fabspeed race headers, competition exhaust, High flow fiters, Ecu flash race gas and pump tune, roll cage, schroth harness, clear bra.

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Default 03-10-2017, 01:20 PM

I never looked at meth, don't have plans to use it - but apparently there are reasons the tank/pump are in the trunk/subfloor. A few seconds of searching found this thread:
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/newrep...reply&p=331994

re: tank and/or pump in engine bay - heat is the issue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Proven not to work properly. It can't prime itself if more than 12-18" away from the tank, and the engine bay causes meth to boil in the pump locking it up until purged with line off nozzle. No fun at all.


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Default 03-10-2017, 06:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
I never looked at meth, don't have plans to use it - but apparently there are reasons the tank/pump are in the trunk/subfloor. A few seconds of searching found this thread:
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/newrep...reply&p=331994

re: tank and/or pump in engine bay - heat is the issue:
I see in your sig you have vrsf 3" down *****...I'm so jealous of you that you have yours already INSTALLED! Lol. Spent from 9:00-4:00 today just getting the old *****'s out, spent another hour starting to put the new VRSF 3" in. Not going so well...but I was up and down and under so many times today my abs are gonna look awesome!!


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Default 03-12-2017, 07:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarContact
I see in your sig you have vrsf 3" down *****...I'm so jealous of you that you have yours already INSTALLED! Lol. Spent from 9:00-4:00 today just getting the old *****'s out, spent another hour starting to put the new VRSF 3" in. Not going so well...but I was up and down and under so many times today my abs are gonna look awesome!!
Sounds about right ... and is exactly why I paid to have mine installed. Good luck with it.


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Default 03-13-2017, 06:24 AM

OFF TOPIC:
(Down pipe install) By far the hardest thing I've ever done mechanically. Spent about 8 hours a day for two days in a row. They're in now, everything seems good, but still need to do a few things to be totally finished with the install. Haven't started car yet.

LessIsMore...once I start the car, I guess I will get SES/CEL lights. ? Once I go in to JB4 interface and clear the error codes, do they stay gone, SES/CEL turns off, stays off?

// Radar //


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Default 03-13-2017, 06:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowon
That's what check valves are for they prevent the back flow of fluid. Mounting in engine bay still doesn't put the pump and tank above the nozzles it actually makes it harder since you have to pump fluid upwards. If you have it placed in the trunk the downward pressure of water level in the tank should be enough to keep fluid pushed out of the lines towards the nozzles so long as fluid level is sufficient. Check valves are super important if you don't want hydrolock issues.

Engineering a pump case is possible, but there's not much room in the engine bay or wheel well for a case with adequate air flow, and these pumps can overheat.

You can you a pcv vent filter and barb fitting to vent the tank and solve that contaminant issue. Just can't let the filter get wet or it may suck in water over time.

IMO it's best to just mount in the trunk, but do whatever you feel is best.
I hear you, but I guarantee that, on the E60, the trunk floor is WAY BELOW the Chargepipe in the engine bay. So I get that the pump needs to be below the tank so it gets a gravity feed for priming. Ok, cool and no problem. But from there the pump pushes the fluid wherever it needs to go.
I can tell you from doing landscaping ponds that pumps have a harder time with rise than distance. So the fact that the trunk is far away from the motor isn't an issue, but the difference between pump elevation vs Chargepipe (nozzle) elevation is the challenge.
My idea (not novel and used by many WMI companies) puts the pump not only closer but also higher overall than the trunk mount option.

The other companies also sell a protective sleeve for the pump in their "fender mount kits" and also offer it separately as an accessory for $10-15.

Again, not tying to sway your opinion. We'll see how it goes. Considering this is for VERY intermittent use, never to be tracked, etc. I'm thinking I might be fine with my idea. If it works, it's something I'll never really have to think about except for keeping the tank topped off.

If I put it in the trunk I'm stuck with a tank in my trunk forever, every time I want to load suitcases, or groceries, etc., it's there -- in my way, always. Plus it's a pita to fill inside the trunk, and there's always the potential for leakage inside my vehicle, tubing running from trunk up through the firewall, which I don't like at all.

// Radar //


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Default 03-14-2017, 08:35 AM

Pump below tank, nozzles above tank.

There's not much room for anything in the E60 in front of the front wheel wells. Sleeve or not, I'd listen to Terry and the WMI kit manufacturers and don't put it in the engine bay.

I've seen some tanks for meth that use just a little space in the trunk, and some that use a lot. I hear you on the potential for leaks, etc. but I'd search and see if that's ever happened. Possible doesn't mean probable.


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Default 03-30-2017, 02:29 PM

Got my tank. Waiting on a few additional parts. I'll post up some pics when I'm done.

Excited!


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Default 04-09-2017, 03:05 PM

Here's a thread with a video of the install.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46153

// Radar //


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