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Timmay77 Timmay77 is offline
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Default JB4 menus 10, 11, and 12 for dummies - 10-17-2015, 08:13 PM

I have read, OVER AND OVER, the Jb4 ISO thread. I just can't grasp it.

Can someone please explain menus 10, 11, and 12 to me in stupid, simple terms? Give me examples of what will happen if:

I set menu 10 on 1000 or 3000.
Menu 11 on 500 or 2800.
Menu 12 on 3500 or 2400
(Numbers just for examples. I don't even know what defaults are.)

What are menus 10/11/12 set to on Map 4? What are the settings?

I am having drivability issues. If I run map 4, it runs fine, map 2 or map 5 and it oscillates massively on partial throttle, so I know it's not a hardware issue. It is a settings issue.

I created this thread in the help section, but I think I just need to FULLY understand the menus so I can find the proper settings.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...321#post415321

I have tried everything everyone has suggested and everything I have read. Just getting very frustrated.


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TheYuriPandaa TheYuriPandaa is offline
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Default 10-17-2015, 11:35 PM

DEFAULT SETTINGS:
Menu 10: 3000RPM
Menu 11: 1000RPM
Menu 12: 2800RPM

Menu 10 is used for wastegate Position. (Wastegate rattle)
Menue 11 Pedal input, how agressive you want your pedal feedback. Higher=More touchy
Menu 12, Base duty cycle. Should be within 2400-2800RPM. To high, To low will cause oscillation and strange behavior..
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Default 10-18-2015, 08:01 AM

1) Changed menu 11 from "open loop" to "throttle sensitivity". Valid range is from 0 to 5000rpm. I have it on 5000 and 12 on 2,400.
Before I had menu 11 at 700 pedal field was horrible. like 60% until boost.
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01bird 01bird is offline
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Default 10-18-2015, 07:25 PM

Thanks for the info as I was completely lost on what settings I should be using or what they meant.

Race8877,

You have menu 11: 5000 / Menu 12 2400? What do you have menu 10 set too?
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01bird 01bird is offline
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Default 10-18-2015, 09:55 PM

I am trying out

menu 10: 3000
menu 11: 5000
menu 12: 2400
using mhd race backend flash. I took it for a spin on map 5 and love the power down low. I'll log it tomorrow to see how everything looks.

Last edited by 01bird; 10-18-2015 at 10:00 PM..
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Timmay77 Timmay77 is offline
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Default 10-19-2015, 01:41 AM

While I appreciate the posts, you guys are pretty much just copy/pasting what it says in the JB4 thread.....

I KNOW menu 10 is default wastegate position. But what does that MEAN? I understand it means the default position of the wastegate, but is 100 almost fully open or is 5000 almost fully open? What are the side effects of running it at 100 or 5000? Does this setting adjust the vacuum pressure that holds the wastegate open/closed? If so, does changing this vacuum pressure effect anything else in the vacuum system?

Menu 11 is pedal sensitivity. What is it set to stock? 1000? 1500? 2000?

Menu 12 is Base Duty Cycle, wastegate position under low throttle. Is low throttle less than 50%? What happens at 60%? Does anyone know what that means? "To high, To low will cause oscillation and strange behavior." So what is too high? 3000?


I am just sick of setting menus 10/11/12 to random numbers, not knowing exactly what I'm doing. Everyone has DRASTICALLY different settings. It seems like there is no rhyme or reason as to where to set things.

DEFAULT settings are NOT the same as what they are in menu 4. If I set 10/11/12 to the "default settings" the car drives like crap. Switch to menu 4, everything drives smooth. Complete waste of a FBO car. So what are menus 10/11/12 set to on menu 4?


2008 535xiT - JB4 ~ DCI ~ Burger Tuning OCC ~ RB PCV Valve~ RB intake ***** ~ VRSF 7" FMIC and **'s ~ DIY CP with TiAL BOV ~ New stock turbos at 99k, DIY'd ~ M5 front bumper ~ ISC Coilovers ~ 19" HRE 441R wheels
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Default 10-19-2015, 08:06 AM

Menu 10 -3000 Here we go MENU--10- 2500 to 3000, 11-5000 , 12-2400.
That is just me. you can play with menu 11 to see how responsive you want
your pedal before hitting boost.

Last edited by Race8877; 10-19-2015 at 08:12 AM..
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Default 10-19-2015, 08:49 AM

This is a great post Timmay77! I too wonder what are the "stock" settings, and just because the car runs better with the settings this way or that, what is the potential negative impact of doing so?
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trohde78 trohde78 is offline
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Default 10-19-2015, 08:51 AM

I would also like to pose this question here, as it was never answered in the main JB4 thread.

There are now contradicting notes for Menu 11. It used to say that a setting of 5000 was linear, now it says the opposite. Can you please clarify? Thanks!

NEW
"Menu 11 (0-5000rpm). This determines the boost profile as a function of gas pedal input. Lower values are more linear, meaning less boost is targeted at lower pedal inputs while higher values are more non-linear meaning higher amounts of boost are targeted at lower pedal inputs."

OLD
"1) Changed menu 11 from "open loop" to "throttle sensitivity". Valid range is from 0 to 5000rpm. This new parameters controls the boost to gas pedal input relationship. A value of 0 will provide no boost target for the first 50% of pedal travel and then a linear mapping from 50% to 100% and make the pedal feel slightly dead in low travel, while a value of 5000rpm provides a linear mapping from 0% to 100% and will make the engine more responsive to pedal input."
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Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 10-19-2015, 08:53 AM

Menu 10 is the position the wastegate returns too when making less than 1.5psi of boost.

Menu 11 is the gas pedal sensitivity start point. A setting of 0 runs zero boost up to 45% gas pedal input while a setting of 5000rpm runs zero boost up to 5% gas pedal input. 100% gas pedal input is always full target.

Menu 12 is the minimum wastegate duty cycle. PWM will not drop below this value regardless of where boost is in relation to target.


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Fernandoargentina Fernandoargentina is offline
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Default Menu 10 , 11 and 12 for newbies - 11-10-2015, 08:03 AM

Hello. I am totally in the same situation than "Timmay77" .
I am an amateur that wants to make the most of his 135i

I have installed JB4 , and its in map 2 cause it has Down ***** too and no catalizers.

But now I feel my Gas pedal much different than stock. In stock it responded sooner to gas pedal, and now i feel i have to press it full to feel the real power.

I guess it should be solved modifying Menu 11? Does anyone knows which is the stock setting for gas pedal? I am pretty sure its different from default setting on jb4 map 2 or 5, is that correct? or i am feeling wrongly?

But now I want to understand menu 10 and 12, and I really don't get what they do, or how they should be configured. I don't know which consecuences will have to modify values in menu 10 and 12, and how that combines (if it does) with values in menu 11. I don't want to break my car, but i will love to understand what could be the best Setting for my Jb4, in order to make the most of it.

Could Terry, or someone who really understand and knows this, could help the amateurs and dummies, so we can enjoy better the jb4 ? It would be really helpful for me, and i guess for many people that does not understand mechachic like pros .

Thank you very much
Fernando
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Default 11-10-2015, 09:19 AM

Post #10 pretty much sums it up.


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Fernandoargentina Fernandoargentina is offline
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Default 11-10-2015, 09:25 AM

Terry with all the respects

I don't understand what you say in post 10. And i think any person who does not know much of car mechanic will be in the same position than me.

It would be cool if you could explain this in an easier level, for regular people that is not expert in this subjects.

I've read everything more than once. And i don't want to change values without understanding.
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Default 11-10-2015, 09:29 AM

I don't think you should change values of 10 or 12, unless there is some specific tuning issue you are trying to correct, which you'd see in a datalog. If you want to make the gas pedal more bottom heavy (less linear) then increasing menu 11 to it's maximum is a way to go about that, though.


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Riceball777 Riceball777 is offline
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Default 11-10-2015, 04:12 PM

Menue 10 is dwp which stands for default waste gate position. 1 is the lowest setting and this means the wastegates are normally at the fully open position. This will cause the car to boost and respond slower but the closeted you are to 1 the less likely you will have wastegate rattle.

5 is the highest setting and this means the wage gates are fully closed when not in boost. This will caught the fastest spool up and response possible but if your turbo waste gates are not in mint condition. They will rattle. My car/turbos have 97,000 miles and any setting above 1.5 they will rattle so mine is set at 1.3. But personally compared to setting it at 5 I don't feel that there is too much difference in lag and spool.


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Default 11-12-2015, 05:26 AM

I'm not sure why people are finding this stuff so hard to understand. You've just received the most concise explanation of what each menu does.

If you need further info on how, for example, a PWM based boost control system operates to make sense of how/why Menu 12 does it what it does then you need to get Googling. You're not going to get a whole lesson on those sorts of generic concepts here.

If for some reason you're not willing to put in some degree of "self-study" then do not change any variables from their stock values.
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N54GOTU N54GOTU is offline
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Default 11-24-2015, 02:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riceball777
Menue 10 is dwp which stands for default waste gate position. 1 is the lowest setting and this means the wastegates are normally at the fully open position. This will cause the car to boost and respond slower but the closeted you are to 1 the less likely you will have wastegate rattle.

5 is the highest setting and this means the wage gates are fully closed when not in boost. This will caught the fastest spool up and response possible but if your turbo waste gates are not in mint condition. They will rattle. My car/turbos have 97,000 miles and any setting above 1.5 they will rattle so mine is set at 1.3. But personally compared to setting it at 5 I don't feel that there is too much difference in lag and spool.
This is what I wanted to know myself. Thank you.

Everytime he or someone asked for an explanation you guys told him menu 10 adjust wgp at no throttle and move on to the next menu. ODDLY ENOUGH you tell us what going up and down in the settings does in those menus, but never for menu 10... Dude (and me) just wanted to know wtf 0 setting vs 5000 setting difference was.. For the other dude..What's so hard to understand about you being so hard to understand?
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Default 11-24-2015, 02:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by N54GOTU
This is what I wanted to know myself. Thank you.

Everytime he or someone asked for an explanation you guys told him menu 10 adjust wgp at no throttle and move on to the next menu. ODDLY ENOUGH you tell us what going up and down in the settings does in those menus, but never for menu 10... Dude (and me) just wanted to know wtf 0 setting vs 5000 setting difference was.. For the other dude..What's so hard to understand about you being so hard to understand?
Considering Menu 10 has always had a range of 0-100 (as in the % of wastegate closure at idle) the fact that you and Timmy think that the range from 100-5000 demonstrates that you have not bothered reading much on this forum and have confused RPM representations on the cluster with actual values OR have confused Menu 10 with Menu 11's new throttle sensitivity changes.
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Timmay77 Timmay77 is offline
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Default 11-24-2015, 02:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Element
Considering Menu 10 has always had a range of 0-100 (as in the % of wastegate closure at idle) the fact that you and Timmy think that the range from 100-5000 demonstrates that you have not bothered reading much on this forum and have confused RPM representations on the cluster with actual values OR have confused Menu 10 with Menu 11's new throttle sensitivity changes.
Well aren't you just a shining ball of light.......

Thanks for the condescending, insulting posts. Welcome to my ignore list.

I read plenty on this forum, but given my background, making changes to menus on the car when I don't fully, and I mean FULLY understand what I'm changing, just didn't seem logical. After asking questions offline and doing some MORE reading (not all on this site) I think I found enough info to understand what's what.

But thanks anyway. You have added an astonishing amount of information to this thread with your crystal clear explanation of the magic behind menus 10,11, and 12.


2008 535xiT - JB4 ~ DCI ~ Burger Tuning OCC ~ RB PCV Valve~ RB intake ***** ~ VRSF 7" FMIC and **'s ~ DIY CP with TiAL BOV ~ New stock turbos at 99k, DIY'd ~ M5 front bumper ~ ISC Coilovers ~ 19" HRE 441R wheels
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Default 11-24-2015, 04:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmay77
Well aren't you just a shining ball of light.......

Thanks for the condescending, insulting posts. Welcome to my ignore list.

I read plenty on this forum, but given my background, making changes to menus on the car when I don't fully, and I mean FULLY understand what I'm changing, just didn't seem logical. After asking questions offline and doing some MORE reading (not all on this site) I think I found enough info to understand what's what.

But thanks anyway. You have added an astonishing amount of information to this thread with your crystal clear explanation of the magic behind menus 10,11, and 12.
You're not looking for explanations of Menu 10/11/12 as that is available in the stickies and has been touched on all over the forum in more detail so how you're so far off the mark on the basics parameters is beyond me.

What you actually seem to be looking for is a course on Boost Control 101. As I said in my initial post you're not going to find someone to spoonfeed all of that information to you here due to the depth of the subject. This is why the explanations seem "light" or incomplete to you...you do not understand the basics and apparently are incapable of finding that detail anywhere. Ironically these details have also been touched on many times on this very forum so if you spend the time reading enough (which you claim to have done) you'll get the understanding you require. Alternatively Google is a good source as well.

Good luck. I hope you get to a point where you don't need someone to tell you exactly what value you need for your specific car because you know how it all fits together.
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Default 11-24-2015, 07:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmay77
Well aren't you just a shining ball of light.......

Thanks for the condescending, insulting posts. Welcome to my ignore list.

I read plenty on this forum, but given my background, making changes to menus on the car when I don't fully, and I mean FULLY understand what I'm changing, just didn't seem logical. After asking questions offline and doing some MORE reading (not all on this site) I think I found enough info to understand what's what.

But thanks anyway. You have added an astonishing amount of information to this thread with your crystal clear explanation of the magic behind menus 10,11, and 12.

Yes he's an ass that knows everything. You will learn to just ignore him in the future.
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Default 11-25-2015, 01:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyyardie
Yes he's an ass that knows everything. You will learn to just ignore him in the future.
Hold a grudge much? Are you a bit butthurt that the OP got the same response here that I gave you in my Euro flash thread?

As for knowing everything I'm sure it looks that way from where you're sitting

Last edited by Element; 11-25-2015 at 02:00 AM..
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Default 11-25-2015, 06:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Element
Hold a grudge much? Are you a bit butthurt that the OP got the same response here that I gave you in my Euro flash thread?

As for knowing everything I'm sure it looks that way from where you're sitting
He may or may not know that your an ass just helping the community out.
Ps I did get my euro back end flash all sorted. Thought I'd let you know seeing that i Don't see u helping anybody on there anymore wait sorry u never helped anybody in the first place cause you know it all my bad
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Default 11-25-2015, 07:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyyardie
He may or may not know that your an ass just helping the community out.
Ps I did get my euro back end flash all sorted. Thought I'd let you know seeing that i Don't see u helping anybody on there anymore wait sorry u never helped anybody in the first place cause you know it all my bad
Ah so you are indeed still butthurt then? Look if you still haven't realised by now that I created that thread (and supported it for many months afterwards) to enable people to create their own flashes instead of spoonfeeding them pre-created flashes then you have a comprehension problem. Anybody reading that thread can see your expectations that you be handed customised flashes from BMS or anyone in that thread were unreasonable.

As for not supporting it anymore, you'll find that is a result of what I mentioned in that thread 1) Having sold my N54 and 2) Becoming disillusioned with people like yourself that refused to help themselves with the info provided. I had a number of PM's and support in the thread asking me to reconsider so in case you hadn't noticed I'm still editing the original post and advising behind the scenes on a semi-regular basis. I'm simply not in the driving seat anymore.

As for you coming right and getting your flash sorted finally I am genuinely happy for you, but it does bull**** your initial posts in that thread about non-US JB4 compatibility. I haven't seen you own up to that just yet, apologise to Terry or anyone else but I suppose that is expected from someone who calls himself a "crazy" "yardie"
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k8R8k k8R8k is offline
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Default 11-25-2015, 07:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Menu 11 is the gas pedal sensitivity start point. A setting of 0 runs zero boost up to 45% gas pedal input while a setting of 5000rpm runs zero boost up to 5% gas pedal input. 100% gas pedal input is always full target.
Does this setting apply for the ST Firmware?
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