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Default JB4 Duty Bias & FF Tuning Info - 04-13-2015, 12:32 PM

Do not change the Duty Bias values from the default of ‘0’ unless instructed to do so, or if logs indicate that they need adjustment

Hey guys,

This thread is to discuss the basics of the new JB4 v28.8+ "duty bias" tuning parameters, and general adjustment of the JB4's boost control PID system. Tuners and "shade tree" tuners who like to evaluate their logs and tinker may find this information useful. If you are not a tuner then ignore this thread. This information is not intended for casual enthusiasts.

Variables we'll be discussing:

PWM or WGDC (in new interface): duty cycle output to the boost solenoids. 0% means the solenoid is fully open while 100% means the solenoid is fully closed.

FF Curve: The base PWM curve before the PID output is added in. We've programmed this curve within the JB4 as a function of boost target, pedal input, RPM, EGT, and some other smaller criteria.

FF User Adjustable: A 0-150% variable that globally scales the FF curve up or down across the board. The JB4 adjusts this value on its own via its wastegate adaption process.

FutureUseD bit1 User Adjustable: This setting disables the wastegate adaption learning process which is sometimes useful when trying to simplify variables while tuning.

PID Gain: Represents the gain value of the PID system or roughly how far away from the FF Curve PWM is allowed to go. Note that I and D are represented as a function of P so changing this value rescales all of the PID variables in a linear fashion.

Duty Bias: The new user adjustment fields which allow adjustment of the FF Curve by RPM.

A simplified formula for ultimate output PWM is:

FF Curve = Internal Mapping * duty bias/50 * FF/100
PID Output = boost_error (boost vs. boost target) * Internal Mapping * PID Gain
PWM = FF Curve + PID Output

So using these variables for any given boost curve you can rescale the FF curve and rescale how far away from that FF curve the output PWM is allowed to wander.

In the following posts I'm going to walk you through some more specific examples of these variables in play.


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Default 04-13-2015, 12:50 PM

For this series of examples we're going to be using the same map6 boost curve shown here. I'll be changing some basic variables to show their impact on the PWM output and boost behavior.

For starters I've disabled wastegate adaption and hard coded FF at 50, duty bias at each RPM at 50, so we can get a baseline curve.

The most ideal situation is one where FF and PWM closely match with only minimal PID values added in to the output. This will result in faster boost targeting and smoother overall operation.

In this log note the relationship between boost, target, FF, and PWM. Boost is slightly below target with these settings and as a result the PID values have gone higher, pushing PWM above the base FF curve. PWM itself has some ossification as minor changes in boost multiplied by a relatively larger PID Gain value introduce a mild oscillation effect.

Also note that it's only useful to compare PWM and FF during relatively "steady state" situations where the turbo is spooled up and the trans locked in gear. Prior to sample point 12 the turbo is in spool mode and running off a separate part of logic (note PWM is at 100% during spool mode).
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Default 04-13-2015, 12:53 PM

Next I modified the RPM based duty bias values to reshape the FF curve in a way I thought might better match the PWM output. Note all other variables have been kept the same.

You can see the net effect of this change in the resulting log. PWM is closer to FF down low, but looks like I lowered FF too much up top as there is still some separation.
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Default 04-13-2015, 12:55 PM

I raised up FF at higher RPM.

In addition I lowered PID Gain from 25 to 10. This is a rather drastic change but I wanted to show what effect this would have on the output. Note that there is no longer PWM oscillation. But this is a double edge sword. PWM is now more limited in its movement from FF. More on this later.
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Default 04-13-2015, 12:57 PM

FF is still well below PWM up top and we're under target. So I've raised up duty bias further in those areas. This looks to be a pretty good match now.
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Default 04-13-2015, 01:01 PM

You'll notice that the duty bias is roughly the same at all RPM points now. This means the JB4s internal curve is a pretty good fit. You'll remember there are two variables to scale the output. FF to scale it globally, and duty bias to scale it by RPM. So I've reset duty bias all back to 50 (effectively disabling this variable), set FF to 70 which is a little higher than the 50 we started with where FF was below PWM across the board, and put FUD back to 0 to enable wastegate adaption.

With wastegate adaption on the JB4 will raise FF if the FF Curve is below PWM and will lower it if the FF Curve is above PWM.

I did 2-3 runs like this and by the 3rd run FF had learned up to 85 and PWM & FF were pretty closely matched with minimal PWM oscillation.
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Default 04-13-2015, 01:05 PM

It's important to remember that single gear FF tuning can only take you so far. The PID component is required to adjust for dynamic situations like throttle transitions, gear shifts, varying short term conditions like EGT and inlet temps, etc.

With PID Gain set to 10 while I've smoothed out PWM I've also limited it's response range. In this example the low PID Gain is preventing PWM from moving far enough below FF to keep boost under target.

Note the FF system is also at work here slowly reducing FF during this run. It started at 85 and finished around 80. A slightly higher PID Gain value of maybe 15 would allow more PID response while still limiting PWM oscillation.

Unfortunately I ran out of time today and wasn't able to do any additional logs. But hopefully this thread gives you an idea for the basics here.
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Default 04-13-2015, 01:05 PM

Reserved for future use.


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Default 04-13-2015, 01:54 PM

Hi Terry
thanks for information
can i for single turbo duty bias at 60 or 65?
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Default 04-13-2015, 02:58 PM

Great! Thank you for this post. Been looking for a detailed explanation on the PID and FF tuning on the JB4 for ages!

Any chance you could explain the auto boost reduction in detail as well?


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Default 04-13-2015, 04:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by n54 power
Hi Terry
thanks for information
can i for single turbo duty bias at 60 or 65?
The same variables apple to the latest single turbo firmware as well.


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Default 04-13-2015, 04:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9Blue
Great! Thank you for this post. Been looking for a detailed explanation on the PID and FF tuning on the JB4 for ages!

Any chance you could explain the auto boost reduction in detail as well?
The auto shift reduction reduces PWM when an automatic gear change is initiated. The higher the number the larger and longer the duration of the PWM drop during the shift. The idea being you want to slower down the turbine before it hits the next gear (which will have a lower CFM requirement) to avoid major boost spikes.


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Default 04-13-2015, 04:48 PM

I guess I'm a "shade tree" TOONer now,


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Default 04-13-2015, 05:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Bullitt1841
I guess I'm a "shade tree" TOONer now,
we gotta start somewhere...haha


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Default 04-13-2015, 05:24 PM

So we would we take the same kind of steps you took, in order to achieve these results, then once it's at the desirable state we switch the duty bias back to 0 or 50 or do we keep the settings the way they are after we achieve the desirable goal?
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Default 04-13-2015, 05:43 PM

It's easier than you guys might think. Just start with values of 50 across the RPM range and let FF adapt as usual. Then tweak the duty bias by increments of 5, up or down. Worked for me.


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Default 04-13-2015, 11:21 PM

Sticky it. Great thread, I've been looking for this info for quite a while now. JB4 just became a more powerful tool for everyone.
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Default 04-13-2015, 11:37 PM

Thanks for taking the time to explain all this with examples and logs etc! Really appreciate it!


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Default 04-14-2015, 08:03 AM

I have the latest firmware and interface.i had my duty bias all set to 0. Then I tried all set to 50,did a log and noticed right away my car would do a bucking throughout 2nd ,3rd and fourth.i pulled over and set back to 0 on duty bias,did a log and car is fine.thought setting at 0 or 50 is same?ill post up the both logs later when I get home.


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Default 04-14-2015, 08:49 AM

0 and 50 are the same settings.


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Default 04-14-2015, 09:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
0 and 50 are the same settings.
Ok,maybe it was a freak thing.Terry,I'm running a custom flash with fud set to 2 iirc and is open loop set to 40. If I set the fud to 99 and play with the duty bias and ff settings will it through off the custom flash? My ffsetting says 134 now as is. This is with stock turbos, ije0s. I don't know how to rescale the tables it's new to me,trying to learn it.im not sure if I should leave the ff where it is and play with the duty bias or both? Should I post logs and take it from there.


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Default 04-14-2015, 09:41 AM

You'd start by evaluating your logs (pwm vs. FF) to see if you even need to bother making any adjustments.


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Default 04-14-2015, 01:20 PM

great post Terry! I like being able to custom tune with guidelines from you like these BTW, can you please post what the maximum value ranges are for each variable.
This is what I think but please confirm-
duty bias: 0-100 50 is no change
PID gain: 0-100?
Fuel open loop: 0-100? 0 is no change?
FF / wastegate adaption: 0-150
auto shift boost reduction: 0-100?


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Default 04-14-2015, 07:50 PM

Very good information Terry.

Always wanted to know more about the ins and outs of JB4's boost control =)
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Default 04-14-2015, 08:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksilver
great post Terry! I like being able to custom tune with guidelines from you like these BTW, can you please post what the maximum value ranges are for each variable.
This is what I think but please confirm-
duty bias: 0-100 50 is no change
PID gain: 0-100?
Fuel open loop: 0-100? 0 is no change?
FF / wastegate adaption: 0-150
auto shift boost reduction: 0-100?
The key is learning how to read your logs so you can see what effects changes you are making have on boost control. I'd raise an eyebrow if you wind up too far away from the default values.


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