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BMDUB1 BMDUB1 is offline
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Default 12-05-2013, 01:51 PM

WOW.... I didnt expect this
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Default 12-05-2013, 03:53 PM

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Originally Posted by musc
Just so happy I have an N54 Maybe the N54 will be resurrected in a 435is one day.
Gotta admit, I'm a tad jealous of the N54 guys. You can bolt on and tune for some major increases in HP. Us N55 guys are waiting (patiently?) for the same opportunities! And when we get there, we still have no idea what this engine block can handle. I'm pretty much maxed out in my gains until there are new developments. Looking forward to the back end flash release!


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Default 12-05-2013, 11:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by musc
Just so happy I have an N54 Maybe the N54 will be resurrected in a 435is one day.
With slightly larger turbos I hope! That graph terry posted is the first n55 log I have ever seen and its depressing!


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emackin emackin is offline
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Default 12-09-2013, 07:55 AM

Terry any word on the pure turbo front I know the orders are shipping, anyone contacted you about tuning that. This seems more promising to me because its just a compressor wheel upgrade. Hopefully no wastegate issues.
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Default 12-09-2013, 08:19 AM

+1


Quote:
Originally Posted by emackin
Terry any word on the pure turbo front I know the orders are shipping, anyone contacted you about tuning that. This seems more promising to me because its just a compressor wheel upgrade. Hopefully no wastegate issues.
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Default 12-09-2013, 08:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by emackin
Terry any word on the pure turbo front I know the orders are shipping, anyone contacted you about tuning that. This seems more promising to me because its just a compressor wheel upgrade. Hopefully no wastegate issues.
They contacted me about tuning one on their local test car which I said I'd be happy to do but I've not heard anything since on it.


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Default 12-09-2013, 06:10 PM

So is there anymore suggestions to see what this turbo has in it? I've done some reading and it sounds like they were certain that the actuator is adjusted correctly, and if anything adjusted tighter than spec which would only help the cause.

Also is it still correct that you are still getting quicker spool with the OEM Journal Bearing turbo than the GTX Ball Bearing unit? This seems to defy logic, unless it is just very poor design and/or machine work then it would make perfect sense.

Rob


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Default 12-09-2013, 06:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
So is there anymore suggestions to see what this turbo has in it? I've done some reading and it sounds like they were certain that the actuator is adjusted correctly, and if anything adjusted tighter than spec which would only help the cause.

Also is it still correct that you are still getting quicker spool with the OEM Journal Bearing turbo than the GTX Ball Bearing unit? This seems to defy logic, unless it is just very poor design and/or machine work then it would make perfect sense.

Rob
we'll see what Terry can do with it before he takes it off!
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Default 12-09-2013, 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech
There is always more info, always, BUT after agreeing to test a product and being a vendor in a small community, the way to handle things is with the vendor, not to mention, it is quite obvious the DME is killing the spool and boost, not the turbo. That he did all this is in a public forum is just unacceptable. But hey live and learn.
Tony you keep saying the DME is killing boost. But, I don't see any evidence of it. Through what mechanism is the DME killing boost? The DME isn't even aware of the actual boost levels and we're running less boost than we do with the OEM turbo in parts of the curve anyway.

Loaded up the Cobb S2+ Aggr map today just to grab a log for you at higher load targets. The red line is the flash boost target. The blue line is actual boost. Same max boost as with the OEM flash and everything else I've tried. Tapering to 17psi @ 6000rpm.

I was thinking about your diverter valve and how it doesn't have a boost reference to force it shut. Just a vacuum reference to pull it open. I see the intake has been tapped. Did you test a boost reference on it? The intake won't have vacuum to pull it open but could hold it shut. What data lead you to determine the OEM DV was leaking?

If its not the DV then it has to be the wastegate or the turbo. The wastegate is basically OEM right? I don't see how that could be leaking or binding. It seems to move normally when I look at it externally.
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Default 12-09-2013, 08:08 PM

This log looks better, right? Still see pwm maxed but I don't recall the initial log having a smooth boost and timing curve? Do you have an Oem DV you could out on to test?
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Default 12-09-2013, 08:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iuhutch
This log looks better, right? Still see pwm maxed but I don't recall the initial log having a smooth boost and timing curve? Do you have an Oem DV you could out on to test?
Exact same. Timing is set too low here but still not enough boost.


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Default 12-10-2013, 01:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
So is there anymore suggestions to see what this turbo has in it? I've done some reading and it sounds like they were certain that the actuator is adjusted correctly, and if anything adjusted tighter than spec which would only help the cause.

Also is it still correct that you are still getting quicker spool with the OEM Journal Bearing turbo than the GTX Ball Bearing unit? This seems to defy logic, unless it is just very poor design and/or machine work then it would make perfect sense.

Rob
So Rob, I was reading your thread about the N55 turbo and how the OEM unit barely had room to fit in a bigger wheel etc. Maybe I read it wrong correct me if I did. Anyways, Tony stated on Bimmerboost that the stock exhaust turbine housing had more than enough room for the Gtx30 wheel. Is there something that could be fishy about that combo. If only you were local... LOL


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Default 12-10-2013, 02:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastGti69
So Rob, I was reading your thread about the N55 turbo and how the OEM unit barely had room to fit in a bigger wheel etc. Maybe I read it wrong correct me if I did. Anyways, Tony stated on Bimmerboost that the stock exhaust turbine housing had more than enough room for the Gtx30 wheel. Is there something that could be fishy about that combo. If only you were local... LOL
I believe he was able to cram a turbine wheel that was a several mm bigger, which is about what I recall thinking as well. To my knowledge no pics were ever released of the turbine side work, it would be interesting to see this part of the conversion.

At the end of the day, I just figured it would cost more than I'd like it to for the gains it is going to bring. I wouldve expected 450-475 whp out of that turbine housing. 500-550 whp always seemed like quite the stretch to me.


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Default 12-10-2013, 04:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
I believe he was able to cram a turbine wheel that was a several mm bigger, which is about what I recall thinking as well. To my knowledge no pics were ever released of the turbine side work, it would be interesting to see this part of the conversion.

At the end of the day, I just figured it would cost more than I'd like it to for the gains it is going to bring. I wouldve expected 450-475 whp out of that turbine housing. 500-550 whp always seemed like quite the stretch to me.
Here are the specs rob, if youre interested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech
In case anyone missed them previously, here are the wheel specs.

I also put together a comparison to stock and the stage 1 turbo.

Compressor:

Stock Compressor: Inducer - 45.8mm, Exducer - 62mm (65.3mm at extended tip)

PURE Compressor Wheel: Inducer - 49.5mm, Exducer - 67mm (72.5mm at extended tip)

Vargas Stage 2 compressor wheel: Inducer - 57mm, Exducer 76mm (78.5mm at extended tip)


Turbine:

Stock turbine: Inducer - 53mm, Exducer 47mm

Vargas Stage 2 Turbine wheel: Inducer -60mm, Exducer - 55mm

Comparison results:

Vargas Stage 2 Compressor:
Inducer - 11.2mm bigger than stock, 7.5mm bigger than stage 1
Exducer - 14mm Bigger than stock, 9mm bigger than Stage 1

Vargas Stage 2 Turbine:
Inducer - 7mm bigger than stock and stage 1, Exducer - 8mm bigger than stock and stage 1.
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Default 12-10-2013, 09:10 AM

Rob please whenever you get a chance, we will be patiently waiting for your turbo upgrade!


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Default 12-10-2013, 09:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
At the end of the day, I just figured it would cost more than I'd like it to for the gains it is going to bring. I wouldve expected 450-475 whp out of that turbine housing. 500-550 whp always seemed like quite the stretch to me.
I think 450whp is within the realm of possibility with more timing and octane on a cold morning. But, that would leave the Vargas turbo N55 still less powerful than a maxed out stock turbo N54.


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Default 12-10-2013, 09:29 AM

I am really hoping you get the car to the track. While the dyno is disappointing and the 500 goal seems far away I am still very curious to see what it might do in the real world. Since it makes more HP/TQ in the higher RPM's I would think that going one the car is moving and banging redline to the next gear it "should" be a pretty decent clip faster than the stock turbo car. Good luck either way though!


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Default 12-10-2013, 09:30 AM

We've run this car before with the stock turbo full weight so at least we'll have a good comparison there for it.


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Default 12-10-2013, 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We've run this car before with the stock turbo full weight so at least we'll have a good comparison there for it.
Good luck, I really hope to see you make something positive out of this crummy ordeal.

If anyone can it is you!


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Default 12-10-2013, 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I think 450whp is within the realm of possibility with more timing and octane on a cold morning. But, that would leave the Vargas turbo N55 still less powerful than a maxed out stock turbo N54.
Yeah, unfortunately the external housing size is misleading but if you really x section the manifold and the twin scroll turbine housing inlets there will be some disappointments. Just way too small to make power that most will want even if you can get nice wheels in there. And I agree, 475whp is definitely optimism on my behalf- a tapped out 450whp is more likely. I think Tony should dump the Ball Bearing units and go back to Journal Bearing, really need to keep the costs as low as possible to make this upgrade sell as it should and shaving about $1500 of the cost is probably what is going to be necessary to make it happen.


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 12-10-2013, 10:37 AM

He should update his website then until further testing can prove the HP amounts he has marketed...

"N55 Stage 2 upgrade consists of a genuine Garrett Dual Ball bearing center section, coupled with VTT custom reverse wheels. The compressor is a full billet GTX style 11 blade wheel, and the turbine is a Garrett 9 blade blade, these are the same wheels you would find in the GTX line up, but made in reverse rotation per our specs. This upgrade will support 500-550WHP with quick spool and plenty of flow to redline."
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Default 12-10-2013, 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Yeah, unfortunately the external housing size is misleading but if you really x section the manifold and the twin scroll turbine housing inlets there will be some disappointments. Just way too small to make power that most will want even if you can get nice wheels in there. And I agree, 475whp is definitely optimism on my behalf- a tapped out 450whp is more likely. I think Tony should dump the Ball Bearing units and go back to Journal Bearing, really need to keep the costs as low as possible to make this upgrade sell as it should and shaving about $1500 of the cost is probably what is going to be necessary to make it happen.
you're right. A lot of n55 owners will be happy with 450 whp but not at that price. If he could just shave off $1000-$1500..
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Default 12-10-2013, 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
I believe he was able to cram a turbine wheel that was a several mm bigger, which is about what I recall thinking as well. To my knowledge no pics were ever released of the turbine side work, it would be interesting to see this part of the conversion.

At the end of the day, I just figured it would cost more than I'd like it to for the gains it is going to bring. I wouldve expected 450-475 whp out of that turbine housing. 500-550 whp always seemed like quite the stretch to me.
Pretty much what I guessed. There's not enough room to aid the wheel and gasses freely. It's choking it.


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Default 12-10-2013, 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iuhutch
He should update his website then until further testing can prove the HP amounts he has marketed...

"N55 Stage 2 upgrade consists of a genuine Garrett Dual Ball bearing center section, coupled with VTT custom reverse wheels. The compressor is a full billet GTX style 11 blade wheel, and the turbine is a Garrett 9 blade blade, these are the same wheels you would find in the GTX line up, but made in reverse rotation per our specs. This upgrade will support 500-550WHP with quick spool and plenty of flow to redline."
He said on another forum that's OK because he reviews each order before executing it. I guess people are supposed to just get all excited then be told, "just kidding, it only makes 410."
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Default 12-10-2013, 02:36 PM

Interesting thought by Jet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JETmn
So I just thought of something... The N55 has a MAF and MAP sensor unlike the N54. The MAF is going to know how much air is moving through it and the MAP will know the boost pressure. Is the JB4 faking both sensors or just one? If those 2 signals don't match up then the DME probably gets pissed off. From what i have read it sounds like most of the input is from the MAF with just verification by the MAP sensor, which is the common way to do it. Any input Terry?
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