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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default 335 N54 build - Advice needed - 03-26-2018, 08:08 PM

I'm thinking of buying a used 335 n54 to try and build something fun of.
The goal would be to have a fun and capable car in 50-250 applications and possibly drag racing.

First of all I'm looking at a rwd car with the 6-speed automatic.
What mileage would be considered excessive on a n54 engine if one would start building on it?
This particular car has done about 175000km.
I'm aware about the problems with hpfp, turbo chargers, walnut blasting, coils and injectors.
But are there more things I should consider?

After the reliability point has been addressed the next question would of course be what mods would you guys recommend?
To have around 600-700hp would be "fun" for race use.
To achieve this I've been looking at different single turbo kits.
That combined with a double walbro 450 setup, ic upgrade and BEF+jb4 seems like a way to go.
What do you think of that?
Would it be possible or am I far off?
Also are my thoughts around the nods correct or would I need way different things to achieve what I want?
What turbo-kit could you recommend?
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Limpmode Limpmode is offline
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Default 03-27-2018, 02:00 AM

A car with 100k miles or less would be a good starting point. I’m at 168k right now and still running strong. When this motor goes I’ll just get a low mileage replacement.


2007 335i; JB4 G5, MHD BEF, BMS DCI, Phoenix CP, Tial BOV, MAP OC, BMS OCC, 1320 Down *****, MMP Inlets, RB Ext PCV, Mishimoto OCC, BMS Meth, N20 TMAP, VTT stock CHRA=billet comp wheels, Blk powdercoat style 124 Wheels (5series staggered), 275/35/18 Firestone rears.
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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default 03-27-2018, 04:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Limpmode
A car with 100k miles or less would be a good starting point. I’m at 168k right now and still running strong. When this motor goes I’ll just get a low mileage replacement.
Thanks for your reply.
The one I'm looking at sits at about 110k miles.
Currently it sits with bad injectors, which causes the price to be fairly low.
For me that is great since I rather do the work myself so I know what is done and how it was done.

However I've done some googling and found out that the automatic might not be able to handle the power figures I'm looking at.
I were not able to find some real numbers or a definite answer to if a 6 speed auto could deal with about 700-800 engine HP with just xhp optimisation.
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LessIsMore LessIsMore is offline
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Default 03-27-2018, 07:48 AM

I'd find the lowest miles you can - but FBO N54's have gone 150K + miles.
If you buy one with 110K, I'd consider starting to save for a replacement down the road if you plan to hit 700whp.

You'll need a port injection kit, in addition to other mods you mentioned, to do it.

There's no definite answer to the automatic horsepower limit - lot of factors, but from what I've seen anything over 600 whp is pushing it hard and burning it's candle pretty quick, I'd think.
XHP and valve body, mech sleeve, etc. upgrades should help.


2009 535i Sport - 548whp
Software :
JB4 G5 | MHD | Trebila Tune | XHP Stage 3
Hardware: VTT GC Lites | MFactory Helical LSD | Inlets | Outlet | VRSF 3" D-P's | VRSF 7" FMIC | Fuel-It! S2 LPFP | Fuel-It! TBI | BMS DCI | ER CP | Forge DV's | Koni FSD

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Default 03-28-2018, 06:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
I'd find the lowest miles you can - but FBO N54's have gone 150K + miles.
If you buy one with 110K, I'd consider starting to save for a replacement down the road if you plan to hit 700whp.

You'll need a port injection kit, in addition to other mods you mentioned, to do it.

There's no definite answer to the automatic horsepower limit - lot of factors, but from what I've seen anything over 600 whp is pushing it hard and burning it's candle pretty quick, I'd think.
XHP and valve body, mech sleeve, etc. upgrades should help.
How much does the stock fuel system with stage 3 lpfp cope with?
When would one need to go for port injection in case I aim at running e85.
I have access to good e85 with about 90-95% ethanol during summer.
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BMW135xi BMW135xi is offline
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Default 03-28-2018, 07:47 AM

I will go with hybrids due to your tranny, automatic., such as Pure Turbos stage#2
good for 700 hp if you need it. As far as your tranny you need to upgrade the clutches
and valvebody to run pass 600+. (Propulsive Dynamic ) . I have the tranny running smooth at 650HP-with XHP software. , not everyday ,only at track or street race.
Daily driven at 550-Plenty.Yes go with 3lpfp and port injection if you are going to run
e-85 and around 600+.
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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default 03-28-2018, 08:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW135xi
I will go with hybrids due to your tranny, automatic., such as Pure Turbos stage#2
good for 700 hp if you need it. As far as your tranny you need to upgrade the clutches
and valvebody to run pass 600+. (Propulsive Dynamic ) . I have the tranny running smooth at 650HP-with XHP software. , not everyday ,only at track or street race.
Daily driven at 550-Plenty.Yes go with 3lpfp and port injection if you are going to run
e-85 and around 600+.
Why twins and not a single?
Clutch packs on a 6-speed auto?
Isn't the 6 speed a old conventional torque converter style gearbox?

Also what kind of power would the fuel system be able to cope with If I ran stage 3 lpfp (dual walbros) and port injection? With about e50 or pure ethanol.
700hp? 800hp?
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BMW135xi BMW135xi is offline
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Default 03-28-2018, 08:22 AM

Twins are easier on your tranny , but yes you can still run single turbo.
Remember 700HP or 800HP on a dyno , is not the same when you put
all that power down on the streets.
yes the 6 speed uses the old conventional torque converter style gearbox.
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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default 03-28-2018, 08:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW135xi
Twins are easier on your tranny , but yes you can still run single turbo.
Remember 700HP or 800HP on a dyno , is not the same when you put
all that power down on the streets.
yes the 6 speed uses the old conventional torque converter style gearbox.
How can twins be better for the transmission?
From my understanding you will have more torque earlier with twins. With a single you have power later in the powerband.

Ah okay, I assume you mixed them up when you mentioned clutch packs.
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BMW135xi BMW135xi is offline
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Default 03-28-2018, 08:32 AM

Ok, ask Terry what is better for the AT, hybrids or single turbo.
I saw a comment saying hybrid in this forum..by him.(Terry)
I will say do your valvebody upgrade with sonnax kit and XHP.
Go from their and see how much you can hold.
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BMW135xi BMW135xi is offline
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Default 03-28-2018, 08:32 AM

Propulsive Dynamics, LLC is happy to announce that we will soon be offering a complete drop-in solution for the 6HP21/19 transmissions that are currently found in N54/N55 powered vehicles. It is preferred that the customer send in their stock unit for rebuild, however, sending a salvaged donor unit is also possible. We also strongly advise that the end user utilize an ATF cooler to aide in heat management of the system.

The fully built transmissions offered by Propulsive Dynamics feature the following…

- Upgraded G3 Friction Material frictions (technical info brochure attached)

- Upgraded Kolene steels (technical info brochure attached)

- Increased clutch plate counts

- Upgraded Race Bushings throughout

- ZF Complete Overhaul Kit

- Fully rebuilt and upgraded valve-body

- Fully rebuilt and upgraded torque converter (stock stall, currently)

- Each finished unit is fully calibrated on a loaded transmission dyno cell

- Each unit is shipped with a calibration data packet which also includes the adaptation procedure

Propulsive Dynamics, LLC has formed an exclusive partnership with European Transmissions. They will be performing the rebuilds and dyno calibration of all of our units. They are a BMW certified transmission refurbishment facility for BMW USA.

The calibration procedure includes increasing line pressures in each clutch drum, increased flow through the ATF pump, adjustments to slip durations to compensate for the increased friction coefficient and adjustments to the adaptation parameters themselves in order for the system to learn within its new boundaries. We are rating the performance increase at ~30% over the known capacity limit of the stock configuration with increased spectrum of usage and margin of safety.

We currently have 4 beta units in the field and the owners are all reporting extremely positive results. More quantifiable data will begin to flow in after this weekend and I am encouraging them to post any and all feedback. Some of the feedback reported thus far has been…

- Faster, sportier shifts

- Firmer, more deliberate shifts

- OEM-lke shifts during daily driving

- Increased shift points (7100 RPMs reported) at WOT

We plan to launch a 15 spot group-buy at the conclusion of beta testing which, hopefully, won’t be too much longer. Early interest in the group-buy can be expressed in this thread. Group-buy pricing will be $4,500.

Any updates will also be posted in this thread.

EDIT for Group-Buy info:

"Jason, out of curiosity, do you have any idea on how the group buy will roll out? Deposits? Delivery windows? Deposit refund policy? Etc."

Excellent question. Currently, our thinking is that after we get 15 people signed up, we would ask for 50% down to start manufacturing the clutches and bushings. Upon completion of the manufacturing phase, currently estimated to be in the 2 week domain, we would then ask for the remaining 50% and for the customer to send us their transmission for upgrade.

After we receive the customer's transmission, turnaround time is estimated to be 4 days based on what we experienced with building the 5 previous units. The rebuild process looks like this...

- Disassembly
- Deep cleaning
- Complete inspection
- Reassemble with upgrades
- Dyno calibration
- Ship
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Limpmode Limpmode is offline
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Default 03-28-2018, 08:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
How can twins be better for the transmission?
From my understanding you will have more torque earlier with twins. With a single you have power later in the powerband.

Ah okay, I assume you mixed them up when you mentioned clutch packs.
With a single you get a big hit later in the power band, with twins you get power earlier, but it comes on more gradually (easier on drivetrain).

Automatics still have clutch packs. You may be confusing a DCT, which perhaps doesn’t have a torque converter?

I would say you’d be all good with that 110k motor. Just broken in! These things will go 200k, but of course the more you push the HP, the shorter the life span.


2007 335i; JB4 G5, MHD BEF, BMS DCI, Phoenix CP, Tial BOV, MAP OC, BMS OCC, 1320 Down *****, MMP Inlets, RB Ext PCV, Mishimoto OCC, BMS Meth, N20 TMAP, VTT stock CHRA=billet comp wheels, Blk powdercoat style 124 Wheels (5series staggered), 275/35/18 Firestone rears.
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alexis485 alexis485 is offline
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Default 03-28-2018, 09:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW135xi
Propulsive Dynamics, LLC is happy to announce that we will soon be offering a complete drop-in solution for the 6HP21/19 transmissions that are currently found in N54/N55 powered vehicles. It is preferred that the customer send in their stock unit for rebuild, however, sending a salvaged donor unit is also possible. We also strongly advise that the end user utilize an ATF cooler to aide in heat management of the system.

The fully built transmissions offered by Propulsive Dynamics feature the following…

- Upgraded G3 Friction Material frictions (technical info brochure attached)

- Upgraded Kolene steels (technical info brochure attached)

- Increased clutch plate counts

- Upgraded Race Bushings throughout

- ZF Complete Overhaul Kit

- Fully rebuilt and upgraded valve-body

- Fully rebuilt and upgraded torque converter (stock stall, currently)

- Each finished unit is fully calibrated on a loaded transmission dyno cell

- Each unit is shipped with a calibration data packet which also includes the adaptation procedure

Propulsive Dynamics, LLC has formed an exclusive partnership with European Transmissions. They will be performing the rebuilds and dyno calibration of all of our units. They are a BMW certified transmission refurbishment facility for BMW USA.

The calibration procedure includes increasing line pressures in each clutch drum, increased flow through the ATF pump, adjustments to slip durations to compensate for the increased friction coefficient and adjustments to the adaptation parameters themselves in order for the system to learn within its new boundaries. We are rating the performance increase at ~30% over the known capacity limit of the stock configuration with increased spectrum of usage and margin of safety.

We currently have 4 beta units in the field and the owners are all reporting extremely positive results. More quantifiable data will begin to flow in after this weekend and I am encouraging them to post any and all feedback. Some of the feedback reported thus far has been…

- Faster, sportier shifts

- Firmer, more deliberate shifts

- OEM-lke shifts during daily driving

- Increased shift points (7100 RPMs reported) at WOT

We plan to launch a 15 spot group-buy at the conclusion of beta testing which, hopefully, won’t be too much longer. Early interest in the group-buy can be expressed in this thread. Group-buy pricing will be $4,500.

Any updates will also be posted in this thread.

EDIT for Group-Buy info:

"Jason, out of curiosity, do you have any idea on how the group buy will roll out? Deposits? Delivery windows? Deposit refund policy? Etc."

Excellent question. Currently, our thinking is that after we get 15 people signed up, we would ask for 50% down to start manufacturing the clutches and bushings. Upon completion of the manufacturing phase, currently estimated to be in the 2 week domain, we would then ask for the remaining 50% and for the customer to send us their transmission for upgrade.

After we receive the customer's transmission, turnaround time is estimated to be 4 days based on what we experienced with building the 5 previous units. The rebuild process looks like this...

- Disassembly
- Deep cleaning
- Complete inspection
- Reassemble with upgrades
- Dyno calibration
- Ship
Propulsive Dynamics stopped doing the whole trans upgrade last year. Someone in spoolstreet forum stated he bought the last set from PD last Friday. Apparently, PD has no plans to make more.


2011 E92 N55 AT | FBO | JB4 + MHD | Pure Stg 2 | Alpina B3 TCU Flash | Fuel-It Stg 3 LPFP + PI Platinum Kit + BMS PI Controller | COBB Exhaust | E85 |
Coming Soon: ABR N55 Built Motor | Big Boost 3.4 Turbo Kit | 6HP19 Built Trans
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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default 03-28-2018, 09:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Limpmode
With a single you get a big hit later in the power band, with twins you get power earlier, but it comes on more gradually (easier on drivetrain).

Automatics still have clutch packs. You may be confusing a DCT, which perhaps doesn’t have a torque converter?

I would say you’d be all good with that 110k motor. Just broken in! These things will go 200k, but of course the more you push the HP, the shorter the life span.
I was not aware that a torque converter used clutch packs. That was something new.

Wouldn't power delivery also be something that could be resolved within a map? For example a slower ramping of boost to save the drivetrain?

Also it would be very interesting to know what the limits will be with ethanol, stage 3 fuel pumps and port injection.

I'm trying to add up the costs before I buy the car.
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KevinC39 KevinC39 is offline
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Default 03-28-2018, 12:40 PM

Yes you can set up the torque curve however you want with the tune. You can make the power come on softer to help the trans regardless of twins vs singles.


2011 E90 335i RWD 6 Speed
FBO JB4 MHD
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Default 03-29-2018, 08:36 AM

If they don't do anymore trannies (PD) just ugrade valvedody with sonnax kit
and XHP software , and take it from there.Best solution buy a DCT car or manual
for big power levels.
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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default 04-14-2018, 09:00 AM

What would the odds be of running into trouble with around 600-650whp and a auto trans?

Also has anyone tried the "new" ON3 T4 kit?
Im aware that the kit is a "chinese manufactored kit, but so is many other ones..
As long the parts fit and does it job for a fair bit of time, ie if the turbo says goodbye after couple of thousand miles ill just replace it with a better one.
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Default 04-14-2018, 09:12 AM

Start with , tranny oil cooler,XHP software ,oil change- Pentosin ATF1.
If tranny is in good standing condition , you should be able to hit 650WHP.
The TQ is what it kills the tranny.
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JuniorB JuniorB is offline
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Default 04-16-2018, 02:35 AM

First, start by sending out an oil sample to determine the engine condition,if it's out and plan on racing it, install new con bearings, and injectors. As far as turbos, any stock size wheel will bring the torque on quick, hybrids will spool later due to bigger wheels. A single will bring the power higher, harder, and further. The GCs, and MMP will make 600+ with ease, twin walbros are fine. The auto is good for 600hp,550-600tq. A manual,will hold more, as there is only a few DCT trans conversions out there, no pnp exsists.
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Default 04-16-2018, 06:35 AM

The transmission can hold more than 600 hp. As far as I'm concern I passed the 600+
with my tranny without any issues. Tranny has oil cooler , XHP, PD clutches and Sonnax kit
(Valvebody).That is street racing not dyno ..Still running strong > I have 20,000 miles on tranny no failures yet.
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Default 04-16-2018, 03:46 PM

Is that on your built or stock? If your going to be making some serious power, with a high mileage trans, it won't last at those numbers. Transmissions wear a lot faster than engines, and if it's been neglected, I'd consider a lower miliage, or swap of some sort.
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Default 04-16-2018, 04:32 PM

Tranny bought used in -ebay -40,000miles-rebuilt it with PD.
Stock you will be lucky if you get to 600HP.I got also front tranny
oil cooler and pentozin AF1 fluid .Shift like butter and no codes
or slippage..Most of the time I drive the car low 600Hp ,daily
driven , up boost when racing only or track.
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Default 04-22-2018, 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW135xi
I will go with hybrids due to your tranny, automatic., such as Pure Turbos stage#2
good for 700 hp if you need it. As far as your tranny you need to upgrade the clutches
and valvebody to run pass 600+. (Propulsive Dynamic ) . I have the tranny running smooth at 650HP-with XHP software. , not everyday ,only at track or street race.
Daily driven at 550-Plenty.Yes go with 3lpfp and port injection if you are going to run
e-85 and around 600+.
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is considered a “hybrid”? I see this term often on the forum, but can’t say I understand. Thanks.


Chet (Kids name for my car) is a 2008 535i Sport+, JB4 G5 ISO, MHD BEF (pump), AFE Cold Air intake, VRSF CP, (genuine) VRSF D-P, Tial BOV, BMS OCC
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Default 04-22-2018, 03:32 PM

Hybrid = Twins
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Snowman Snowman is offline
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Default 06-08-2018, 12:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW135xi
Tranny bought used in -ebay -40,000miles-rebuilt it with PD.
Stock you will be lucky if you get to 600HP.I got also front tranny
oil cooler and pentozin AF1 fluid .Shift like butter and no codes
or slippage..Most of the time I drive the car low 600Hp ,daily
driven , up boost when racing only or track.
Could you or someone link the Sonnax kit?
I cant seem to be able to find it..
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