N54Tech.com - Your Source for International Turbo BMW Racing Discussion
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Default 06-18-2017, 08:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard H
Thats really sad news I was about to get one. Can i still buy one even with limited support?
If we can't fully support something it doesn't make sense for us to sell it. Might be some floating around on the used market.


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Default 06-18-2017, 02:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james
Terry, can you verify or clarify how this chart relates to the S63 version, please.
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'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - MHD 1+, BMS DCI, RB/Mishimoto, VRSF 7"
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's

Last edited by m5james; 06-18-2017 at 02:53 PM..
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Default 06-18-2017, 02:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james
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The only in dash options in the S63 firmware for for map changing and in dash gauges. Rest do not apply.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 06-18-2017, 03:00 PM

Perfect, thanks...I was worried sometimes that I was making major changes vs these just being minor.


'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - MHD 1+, BMS DCI, RB/Mishimoto, VRSF 7"
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's
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Default 06-19-2017, 03:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james
Perfect, thanks...I was worried sometimes that I was making major changes vs these just being minor.
James,

I was playing around with the steering wheel controls today. It seems to me that it is really more closely related to the E-series N55 settings for everything outside of the Map on 0-x.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13189

I was able to do the following:

Read codes on 1-1
Fuel gauge hijack on 2-x
Shift Lights on 3-x
(I'd be curious if the CANflap works, but didn't try any under 4-x)
Gauge Sweep on/off on 5-7
(didn't try 6-x)
Oil gauge hijack on 7-x
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Default 06-22-2017, 06:25 PM

"**** 6/17/17 Update: We've decided due to higher than expected support requirements and low sales volume no longer to offer the S63 JB4 system."

Yet another person PM/email me about wanting to JB4 their S63, I link them to this thread and see this. This is hugely disappointing for myself and likely the others who are $1k+ into this. Isn't this the definition of why people ever buy the JB4 in the first place vs a tune? So what about meth tuning needs...are we screwed here as well? I know of three people mid install right now.


'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - MHD 1+, BMS DCI, RB/Mishimoto, VRSF 7"
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's

Last edited by m5james; 06-22-2017 at 07:05 PM..
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Default 06-22-2017, 06:58 PM

We'll help people where we can to a reasonable degree, and if you got an S63 JB4 from us we can always take it back. But the amount of work required to support the platform is a lot more than we anticipated and we can only throw away so much money on it.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 06-22-2017, 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by e36bmer
James,

I was playing around with the steering wheel controls today. It seems to me that it is really more closely related to the E-series N55 settings for everything outside of the Map on 0-x.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13189

I was able to do the following:

Read codes on 1-1
Fuel gauge hijack on 2-x
Shift Lights on 3-x
(I'd be curious if the CANflap works, but didn't try any under 4-x)
Gauge Sweep on/off on 5-7
(didn't try 6-x)
Oil gauge hijack on 7-x
What on 7-x did you do tp hijack the oil temp to make it IAT since that's not listed on the table above?

Edit - just went to your link. We'll have to consolidate these two tables together to make them applicable here.


'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - MHD 1+, BMS DCI, RB/Mishimoto, VRSF 7"
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's
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Default 06-22-2017, 07:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We'll help people where we can to a reasonable degree, and if you got an S63 JB4 from us we can always take it back. But the amount of work required to support the platform is a lot more than we anticipated and we can only throw away so much money on it.
I bought a fully decked out Aquamist system because the JB4 and it's praised meth control wasn't avaiable. Suddenly the JB4 became available, it took me almost a year and a loss of money to sell the Aquamist since you said you wouldn't support me using Aquamist over your kit. I've since got JB4 running, then just recently saw how badly I need meth/water to control IAT's after driving from Seattle's 40* temps to Hollywood's 90* temps for Bimmerfest. Selling my JB4 means I'm back to square one. You've already told me in not so many words that any additonal JB4 support will fall on members here or some random local tuner (assuming he even knows what the JB4 is, does or can do), so my bigger question is will meth support part of this reasonable degree. Don't get me wrong, switching between maps is fun, logging has been somewhat helpful since Steve @ Fuel It answers questions as well, but if there's no meth support, the JB4 has lost the biggest reason why myself and others have taken the plunge.


'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - MHD 1+, BMS DCI, RB/Mishimoto, VRSF 7"
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's
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Default 06-22-2017, 09:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard H
Thats really sad news I was about to get one. Can i still buy one even with limited support?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We will continue to offer the Stage1 tune. It can be run stand alone or in conjunction with a flash tune like your Dinan map.
Stacked flash with JB4 makes sense since the JB4 has made my stage 2 flash even better with adjustable boost levels, boost by RPM, adjustable FOL, map 4 safety, etc...not to mention the obvious logging and potential meth control.

Unless stage 1 is adjustable, I'd call that obsolete before discontinuing the JB4 since a stage 1 flash will always be better than a stage 1 piggyback. A flash can be installed and removed way faster than pinning and unpinning the rats nest of ECU wires.

Just my .02 but hopefully you'll consider continuing the JB4 but make it known there will be little support. Other than the perk of being able to adjust boost levels on demand, the JB4 was instrumental in running logs to verify my need to change to different plugs and being able to adjust my FOL to stop my misfures. Until tuners come out with a higher boost stage 3 flash for the S63, the JB4 still makes the S63 better than any stage 2 flash-only I've heard of so far.


'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - MHD 1+, BMS DCI, RB/Mishimoto, VRSF 7"
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's

Last edited by m5james; 06-22-2017 at 09:34 PM..
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Default 06-23-2017, 01:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by e36bmer
James,

I was playing around with the steering wheel controls today. It seems to me that it is really more closely related to the E-series N55 settings for everything outside of the Map on 0-x.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13189

I was able to do the following:

Read codes on 1-1
Fuel gauge hijack on 2-x
Shift Lights on 3-x
(I'd be curious if the CANflap works, but didn't try any under 4-x)
Gauge Sweep on/off on 5-7
(didn't try 6-x)
Oil gauge hijack on 7-x
Played around with settings during my lunch (I work nights), go out after work and the aux fan refuses to shut off...figured out I turned on max cool :-)


'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - MHD 1+, BMS DCI, RB/Mishimoto, VRSF 7"
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's

Last edited by m5james; 06-25-2017 at 11:59 AM..
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e36bmer e36bmer is offline
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Default 06-23-2017, 05:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Yes we can add WMI control to the S63 JB4... Just contact me when you have it setup and we'll discuss the setting details.

Terry,

I've posted some logs of my WMI setup, I'd like to get this tuned up a little more. Any ideas on some changes for Map 7?

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...592#post544592
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Default 06-26-2017, 02:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james
Stacked flash with JB4 makes sense since the JB4 has made my stage 2 flash even better with adjustable boost levels, boost by RPM, adjustable FOL, map 4 safety, etc...not to mention the obvious logging and potential meth control.

Unless stage 1 is adjustable, I'd call that obsolete before discontinuing the JB4 since a stage 1 flash will always be better than a stage 1 piggyback. A flash can be installed and removed way faster than pinning and unpinning the rats nest of ECU wires.

Just my .02 but hopefully you'll consider continuing the JB4 but make it known there will be little support. Other than the perk of being able to adjust boost levels on demand, the JB4 was instrumental in running logs to verify my need to change to different plugs and being able to adjust my FOL to stop my misfures. Until tuners come out with a higher boost stage 3 flash for the S63, the JB4 still makes the S63 better than any stage 2 flash-only I've heard of so far.
Yeah this is disappointing. Hopefully someone else (maybe MHD?) will be able to do the things we are looking for if it's not financially viable for BMS.
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Default 06-26-2017, 02:01 PM

Stage1 is adjustable and frequently used in conjunction with a flash tune to dial in another 1-4psi on top of the flash profile.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 06-26-2017, 02:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Stage1 is adjustable and frequently used in conjunction with a flash tune to dial in another 1-4psi on top of the flash profile.
I'm assuming the JB4 for S63 hardware is similar or the same as one of your other products. Is that correct?

If so, the issue would only be firmware. Would you be willing to sell a license (under NDA/NC if necessary), to the source? I'm an embedded software engineer. I'd be happy to address my own needs in the firmware.
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Default 06-26-2017, 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroclast
I'm assuming the JB4 for S63 hardware is similar or the same as one of your other products. Is that correct?

If so, the issue would only be firmware. Would you be willing to sell a license (under NDA/NC if necessary), to the source? I'm an embedded software engineer. I'd be happy to address my own needs in the firmware.
Sorry that won't be an option.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 06-26-2017, 02:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Sorry that won't be an option.
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Default 06-26-2017, 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroclast
Yeah this is disappointing. Hopefully someone else (maybe MHD?) will be able to do the things we are looking for if it's not financially viable for BMS.
I've already tried and they're not interested. That's not to say they wouldn't change their minds if asked more.


'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - MHD 1+, BMS DCI, RB/Mishimoto, VRSF 7"
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's

Last edited by m5james; 06-26-2017 at 03:08 PM..
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Default 06-26-2017, 03:30 PM

Most companies are going to fall in to the same category as we have. Just not enough cars out there who would want to modify to justify the costs. It made sense to just make a basic JB4 for it but everyone expects the same level of support as we can provide other JB4 applications and its just not financially practical.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 06-27-2017, 11:48 AM

When our JB4 was at least, if not more expensive then other versions, while still being called "basic" then yes, the same level of service was expected. Instead this was a $1100+ project, but hey, the money has been made so we're SOL on everything else that brings people to JB4 vs flash. No wonder the classifieds are flooded with used JB4's...MHD is providing the same level of service that BMS seems to be to going away from.


'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - MHD 1+, BMS DCI, RB/Mishimoto, VRSF 7"
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's
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Default 06-27-2017, 12:02 PM

We're able to provide a much higher level of support for N54, N55, N20, S55, S63TU, etc, platforms, due to much higher sales volume. The S63 platform just doesn't have a large enough customer base to justify the development and support customers are requiring. To provide the level of support you need we'd have to charge you $150-$200 per hour of support provided and that simply isn't going to practical nor do we want to go down that road. If you upgrade to the S63TU platform you'll find we offer a much higher level of support and much better results.

If you're unhappy with the S63 JB4 you're welcome to send it back for a refund. Also keep in mind there is no free tuning support for flash tuning. It's all pay per your requirements with custom tuners. They charge you based on how much time you require.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 06-27-2017, 12:16 PM

I understand that, but it doesn't make it suck any less. Upgrading to the S63TU powered F85 X5M is roughly a $30+k price difference for what's ultimately maybe a few hundred horses and half a second quarter mile difference? I'll pass...I could spend 1/4 of that on further mods and tuning time on my currect vehicle and probably be pretty close.

I'm happy with what the JB4 has done for me, but it sucks that once the going got good, a wall was hit very quickly support wise. We'll see what happens on the meth integration thread, but until a tuner releases a stage 3 flash that'll make the JB4 unnecessary (minus the meth control), that wall has turned into a rock and a hard place.


'10 BMW X5///M - Alpine White on Sakhir Orange - HCP Stage 2/JB4, NGK 97506 @ .20, SS intake w/ BMC filters, gutted cats, muffler delete & Vibrant 1794's, AC Forged 312 22's, H&R 2"
'08 BMW 535xiT - MHD 1+, BMS DCI, RB/Mishimoto, VRSF 7"
'98 BMW 740iL - ///E39 M5 6spd swap, fully built engine (sleeved, P&P, cams), 3.46 LSD, H&R Stage 2/Bilstein HD, Magnaflow 14816's
'97 BMW 328ci - ///E36 M3 clutch, L/W flywheel, 3.23LSD, Z4///M staggered 18's

Last edited by m5james; 06-27-2017 at 04:47 PM..
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Default 06-27-2017, 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james
I'm happy with what the JB4 has done for me, but it sucks that once the going got good, a wall was hit very quickly support wise. We'll see what happens on the meth integration thread, but until a tuner releases a stage 3 flash that'll make the JB4 unnecessary (minus the meth control), that wall has turned into a rock and a hard place.
We'll take it slow. I still don't think there is anything that'll allow us to control methanol any better. I have an updated firmware to see if we can hammer out this methanol control. I'd imagine it's a simple fix to swap which input the system is expecting methanol on. We'll go from here. Again, bummer on them removing the product from sale, but there really weren't all that many S63's sold anyway. Hopefully this is enough to hold me off until some more depreciation hits the F85.
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Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 06-28-2017, 09:33 AM

Happy to make minor firmware bug fixes and adjustment like we've been doing for e36bmer's WMI setup. And at some point we'll post the firmware in this thread. For those who really want a JB4 for their S63 technically the hardware is the same as the N63 JB4 so you'll have that option to effectively DIY a JB4 for yourself.


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Default 06-28-2017, 11:09 AM

thank you :-)


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