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Stoolz Stoolz is offline
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Default Should I swap my VTT DBB to PS2 - 03-02-2018, 03:55 PM

11.8 @ 123mph VTT (2.1 / 60)
Making over 500whp.
A second hand ps2 has come up locally, should I swap or is it minimally better?
Have been thinking about doing a top mount as well.
Cheers.


2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.
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Default 03-02-2018, 04:22 PM

You're making very similar power to a PS2. If you want to make 500+whp I think it would be a waste of time to switch to the PS2. I would either keep you current setup or going with one of the stage 3 options.

How much boost and timing were you running on you 123 mph pass?


2011 E92 335i Auto
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
12.6 @ 112MPH 92 Octane | 11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD
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2014 E84 X1 35i 13.9 @ 99MPH 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ
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Stoolz Stoolz is offline
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Default 03-02-2018, 04:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Boost
You're making very similar power to a PS2. If you want to make 500+whp I think it would be a waste of time to switch to the PS2. I would either keep you current setup or going with one of the stage 3 options.

How much boost and timing were you running on you 123 mph pass?
Thanks, that's kinda how I'm feeling about it too.
Timing was a bit messy and boost target of 24 psi.
Mph was very consistent last time out (before pi or m4 fw).
I have noticed PI has cleaned up my timing a lot. Looking forward to getting out again soon. Just wish et's weren't so damaged by dct crappy 60 footers.

I'm RHD so no S3 options for me


2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.
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Default 03-02-2018, 05:09 PM

To give you a little bit of perspective on trap times with the PS2 on my 335i at certain boost and timing targets.

125 mph - 20.5 psi 10 degrees (cleanish timing)
Name:  125.jpg
Views: 288
Size:  95.4 KB

120 mph - 16 - 17 psi between 7 - 13 degrees (Not clean timing) I also trapped 116 mph on this same tune due to inconsistent timing
Name:  120 mph.jpg
Views: 287
Size:  90.3 KB

We will see if I can get up to 127 mph or so this next season as I am going to add methanol back on top the E30 tune (Data zap .me post)


2011 E92 335i Auto
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
12.6 @ 112MPH 92 Octane | 11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD
Back to stock

2014 E84 X1 35i 13.9 @ 99MPH 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ
ER Chargepipe | BMS Intake |
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Stoolz Stoolz is offline
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Default 03-02-2018, 05:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Boost
To give you a little bit of perspective on trap times with the PS2 on my 335i at certain boost and timing targets.

125 mph - 20.5 psi 10 degrees (cleanish timing)
Attachment 71948

120 mph - 16 - 17 psi between 7 - 13 degrees (Not clean timing) I also trapped 116 mph on this same tune due to inconsistent timing
Attachment 71949

We will see if I can get up to 127 mph or so this next season as I am going to add methanol back on top the E30 tune (Data zap .me post)
My car loves meth.
I'm sure you will see a big improvement.


2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.
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Default 03-02-2018, 09:10 PM

I think your trap speed would increase 4-5mph in the 1/4 mile targeting 23-24psi. The power gap at redline between the two turbos is pretty big IMO. If the deal is sweet enough I would switch.


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Stoolz Stoolz is offline
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Default 03-02-2018, 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newguy123
I think your trap speed would increase 4-5mph in the 1/4 mile targeting 23-24psi. The power gap at redline between the two turbos is pretty big IMO. If the deal is sweet enough I would switch.
I agree as well. I had a big bump in power from M4 FW running map 7. Not so much at 25 psi because I just run out of breath.

I like ure videos also.


2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.
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SeanWRT SeanWRT is offline
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Default 03-03-2018, 10:56 AM

You seem one of few running right VTT DBB N55 user out there. I assume 24psi was the peak. How is it holding up at top end from log care to share? If you really put down 500whp in even dynojet STD, I dont see you're gaining anything at all with PS2 TBH.

Also VTT wants us to think its DBB spools quicker than Hybrid - logically DBB should, but key is execution and devil always is in there. Dyno results simply don't show that. What is your experience in real life?
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Stoolz Stoolz is offline
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Default 03-03-2018, 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT
You seem one of few running right VTT DBB N55 user out there. I assume 24psi was the peak. How is it holding up at top end from log care to share? If you really put down 500whp in even dynojet STD, I dont see you're gaining anything at all with PS2 TBH.

Also VTT wants us to think its DBB spools quicker than Hybrid - logically DBB should, but key is execution and devil always is in there. Dyno results simply don't show that. What is your experience in real life?
My turbo feels pretty good on the street, no lag to speak of.
I bought it before PS2 was available. I've watched for a while and even though dynos etc look pretty good for PS2 Terrys early on 11.4 no pi / no mhd on the VTT didn't really get eclipsed (by an e series car anyway).
I'm 11.8 with that bad 60 so I really consider my car a low 11 car.
We don't have Dynojet in Aus. I was dyno'd on a dyno dynamics. From what i have read they read 15% lower than dynojet. 453 was my peak hp @ 25 psi. Plenty of power under the curve.
Drag log was pre pi and old boost solenoid that needed replacing.
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2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.

Last edited by Stoolz; 03-03-2018 at 02:46 PM..
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Default 03-08-2018, 06:49 PM

Just to close this thread out I didn't purchase the PS2.
I was in touch with a guy who has run both on the same car as mine and he told me to skip it.
I will probably end up going custom 6266 or similar unless a RHD S3 kit comes along.


2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.
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Default 03-08-2018, 09:09 PM

I thought N54tech had resolution maximums. Those photos are huge!


2011 E92 335i Auto
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
12.6 @ 112MPH 92 Octane | 11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD
Back to stock

2014 E84 X1 35i 13.9 @ 99MPH 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ
ER Chargepipe | BMS Intake |
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Default 03-08-2018, 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Boost
I thought N54tech had resolution maximums. Those photos are huge!
Haha I know right, I'm a bit of a serial pest with those.


2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.
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Default 03-14-2018, 07:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Boost
To give you a little bit of perspective on trap times with the PS2 on my 335i at certain boost and timing targets.

125 mph - 20.5 psi 10 degrees (cleanish timing)

120 mph - 16 - 17 psi between 7 - 13 degrees (Not clean timing) I also trapped 116 mph on this same tune due to inconsistent timing

We will see if I can get up to 127 mph or so this next season as I am going to add methanol back on top the E30 tune (Data zap .me post)
Those 20 psi where on just 93 not meth?

Trying to decide on going either PI or Meth for my PS2. You said you going meth, any reason why meth over PI beside the price.


F30 PWG PS2 + WMI + MHD Bef/JB4 + VRSF FBO + N20TMAP. MPPK, MPE, MP-Susp, MP-Brakes, 437M, MP-Lip, MP-Diffuser, MP-Spoiler, MP-Rocker Panel, MP-Sills, MP-Pedals, MP-Grille, MP-Mats, IND Reflector.
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Default 03-14-2018, 01:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoandry
Those 20 psi where on just 93 not meth?

Trying to decide on going either PI or Meth for my PS2. You said you going meth, any reason why meth over PI beside the price.
125 mph was E20 (Pump and ethanol) plus meth 85/15 mix with a CM10 nozzle.

120 mph was E30 only.

I purchased the BMS/Cooling mist kit 3 years ago. When I moved away from the JB4 I did not immediately search for a new methanol controller. Since I already had a meth kit you're really asking why I bought a $250 controller over a $1,000+ PI kit. I personally would only consider a methanol PI kit as the only ethanol station is an hour and a half away from me. I will be selling the 335i later this year so it doesn't make much sense to continue to sink money into mods for it. Some of the parts will find there way to the X1.

If you want my opinion on the options without my personal situation here they are.

Methanol kit
Great for the added octane and almost a must for cooling. Any runs longer than a 1/4 mile in the summer and temps get pretty high without methanol. The kits are between $500-$600. I was able to gain about 5 psi of boost with the same timing when running methanol vs just pump gas. It also allows for a little more room before the HPFP crashes.

Ethanol Port Injection
This is a great option for people that don't daily their car, live right next to an ethanol station, or don't drive for long distances. That is not to say that you cannot fill up on pump gas but running high ethanol mixtures will kill your fuel economy. Ethanol burns cooler than pump gas so you will get a little less heat while running it. I have found ethanol to do a very good job suppressing knock even on E30 so I would imagine E50 or E85 would allow you plenty of room to add more boost and timing. You don't have to think about filling two fuel tanks (methanol).


Methanol Port Injection
If you already have a methanol kit you're looking at about $1,000 for the Fuel-IT kit. It will allow for much more boost, even distribution, and much greater cooling. I don't know what duty cycle people run for the 550 cc/min injectors but I would imagine moving from a 800 cc/min (CM10) injector to 6 550 cc/min injectors would mean you're going through a lot more methanol, 800 cc/min vs 3,300 cc/min (at 100% duty cycle).


2011 E92 335i Auto
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
12.6 @ 112MPH 92 Octane | 11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD
Back to stock

2014 E84 X1 35i 13.9 @ 99MPH 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ
ER Chargepipe | BMS Intake |
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Yoandry Yoandry is offline
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Default 03-14-2018, 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Boost
125 mph was E20 (Pump and ethanol) plus meth 85/15 mix with a CM10 nozzle.

120 mph was E30 only.

I purchased the BMS/Cooling mist kit 3 years ago. When I moved away from the JB4 I did not immediately search for a new methanol controller. Since I already had a meth kit you're really asking why I bought a $250 controller over a $1,000+ PI kit. I personally would only consider a methanol PI kit as the only ethanol station is an hour and a half away from me. I will be selling the 335i later this year so it doesn't make much sense to continue to sink money into mods for it. Some of the parts will find there way to the X1.

If you want my opinion on the options without my personal situation here they are.

Methanol kit
Great for the added octane and almost a must for cooling. Any runs longer than a 1/4 mile in the summer and temps get pretty high without methanol. The kits are between $500-$600. I was able to gain about 5 psi of boost with the same timing when running methanol vs just pump gas. It also allows for a little more room before the HPFP crashes.

Ethanol Port Injection
This is a great option for people that don't daily their car, live right next to an ethanol station, or don't drive for long distances. That is not to say that you cannot fill up on pump gas but running high ethanol mixtures will kill your fuel economy. Ethanol burns cooler than pump gas so you will get a little less heat while running it. I have found ethanol to do a very good job suppressing knock even on E30 so I would imagine E50 or E85 would allow you plenty of room to add more boost and timing. You don't have to think about filling two fuel tanks (methanol).


Methanol Port Injection
If you already have a methanol kit you're looking at about $1,000 for the Fuel-IT kit. It will allow for much more boost, even distribution, and much greater cooling. I don't know what duty cycle people run for the 550 cc/min injectors but I would imagine moving from a 800 cc/min (CM10) injector to 6 550 cc/min injectors would mean you're going through a lot more methanol, 800 cc/min vs 3,300 cc/min (at 100% duty cycle).
Thanks for the respond man.

Now, the opinion for not good as DD on e85 is because fuel economy or something else like maintenance, too much e85 will do something to the engine, etc. Trying to think on a long run.
I do have a close gas station for it but I use my car as dd and I like to drive it. lol But I also live in Florida which it gets really hot.
Dont know, I may just get meth for the cooling/octane and stage2 lpfp for some e30-40 to avoid knock.
I want to run just like 22psi max as dd.


F30 PWG PS2 + WMI + MHD Bef/JB4 + VRSF FBO + N20TMAP. MPPK, MPE, MP-Susp, MP-Brakes, 437M, MP-Lip, MP-Diffuser, MP-Spoiler, MP-Rocker Panel, MP-Sills, MP-Pedals, MP-Grille, MP-Mats, IND Reflector.

Last edited by Yoandry; 03-14-2018 at 05:27 PM..
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Stoolz Stoolz is offline
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Default 03-15-2018, 03:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoandry
Thanks for the respond man.

Now, the opinion for not good as DD on e85 is because fuel economy or something else like maintenance, too much e85 will do something to the engine, etc. Trying to think on a long run.
I do have a close gas station for it but I use my car as dd and I like to drive it. lol But I also live in Florida which it gets really hot.
Dont know, I may just get meth for the cooling/octane and stage2 lpfp for some e30-40 to avoid knock.
I want to run just like 22psi max as dd.
I would go with meth.
Works great and keeps iats down, run E30-50 you cant go wrong.
I actually ran meth/E50 for about 3 years no issues. I ran PI for a month and had a fuel connection break off the PI rail and dump about 8 litres of E50 all through my engine bay while driving on the highway. Very lucky to not lose my car in flames.
PI will clean up your timing and allow higher E mixes but Meh.


2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.
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Yoandry Yoandry is offline
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Default 03-15-2018, 08:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoolz
I would go with meth.
Works great and keeps iats down, run E30-50 you cant go wrong.
I actually ran meth/E50 for about 3 years no issues. I ran PI for a month and had a fuel connection break off the PI rail and dump about 8 litres of E50 all through my engine bay while driving on the highway. Very lucky to not lose my car in flames.
PI will clean up your timing and allow higher E mixes but Meh.
Thanks,
Yeah I think will try meth with st2 lpfp first. Seems that everyone do meth first then PI, thats why I was trying to go directly to PI but, dont know as I not gonna try to max out ps2 at 26psi. Will go around 22 flat curve.


F30 PWG PS2 + WMI + MHD Bef/JB4 + VRSF FBO + N20TMAP. MPPK, MPE, MP-Susp, MP-Brakes, 437M, MP-Lip, MP-Diffuser, MP-Spoiler, MP-Rocker Panel, MP-Sills, MP-Pedals, MP-Grille, MP-Mats, IND Reflector.
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Stoolz Stoolz is offline
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Default 03-15-2018, 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoandry
Thanks,
Yeah I think will try meth with st2 lpfp first. Seems that everyone do meth first then PI, thats why I was trying to go directly to PI but, dont know as I not gonna try to max out ps2 at 26psi. Will go around 22 flat curve.
You should be able to run 26 psi


2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.
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Default 03-15-2018, 01:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoandry
Thanks,
Yeah I think will try meth with st2 lpfp first. Seems that everyone do meth first then PI, thats why I was trying to go directly to PI but, dont know as I not gonna try to max out ps2 at 26psi. Will go around 22 flat curve.
You limitation will be your HPFP. I don't think a LPFP upgrade is needed until you move to port injection. At that point you would want to look into a stage 3 pump.


2011 E92 335i Auto
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
12.6 @ 112MPH 92 Octane | 11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD
Back to stock

2014 E84 X1 35i 13.9 @ 99MPH 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ
ER Chargepipe | BMS Intake |
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Yoandry Yoandry is offline
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Default 03-15-2018, 01:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Boost
You limitation will be your HPFP. I don't think a LPFP upgrade is needed until you move to port injection. At that point you would want to look into a stage 3 pump.
Thats what I thought, as I was able to run e40 on stock turbo, but it seems that some people said it will help I know it wont. lol


F30 PWG PS2 + WMI + MHD Bef/JB4 + VRSF FBO + N20TMAP. MPPK, MPE, MP-Susp, MP-Brakes, 437M, MP-Lip, MP-Diffuser, MP-Spoiler, MP-Rocker Panel, MP-Sills, MP-Pedals, MP-Grille, MP-Mats, IND Reflector.
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