N54Tech.com - Your Source for International Turbo BMW Racing Discussion
(#1)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default Pure Stage 2: 3psi - 01-16-2018, 08:29 PM

Prior to having the PS2 installed, I was at max 14psi, with FMIC and E30, and it ran great. The only problem was the standard stock turbo underperformance at high revs. So I upgraded, and since having the PS2 installed, it feels like a true economy car up to about 3500 rpm, and slightly faster at 5000.

I contacted Pure, and a few days after sending the logs they requested I got a response that 95% of the time it's a boost leak (Which it may be if it's the diverter or outlet, but there weren't any elsewhere), there are a lot of incorrect installs, and essentially "your professional mechanic can diagnose it" (para). I hadn't personally heard you could wreck it by not adjusting it prior to install, and it doesn't come with any instructions.

Now I plan to have the installer, a well-reputed independent mechanic, do that, and who knows how much more it will cost to fix, if it can be fixed. I thought I would post this in case it's happened to someone else they can tell me an easy fix, and also as a precautionary tale that things can definitely go wrong. If I had it to do over again I would drive 1500 miles to have Pure install it so that no one could pass the buck. (Manufacturer blames installer, installer blames manufacturer, I pay the bills.) It is the kind of upgrade I want; I just wish it worked.

A JB4 log is attached showing the smooth pull all the way up to 2.9 psi. (pic: https://imgur.com/xqFY7a0 )

UPDATE: Issue has been resolved. It was a little vacuum hose in the chain to the wastegate.
Attached Files
File Type: csv lowps21.csv (10.1 KB, 39 views)

Last edited by hi rpm; 01-20-2018 at 08:40 PM..
Reply With Quote
(#2)
Old
hardparker hardparker is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 31
Join Date: Nov 2017
Car: F25
Default 01-17-2018, 06:40 AM

Must be an install error and boost leak. Good luck getting it fixed. You'll love it once it's working well.
Reply With Quote
(#3)
Old
durty sexn55 durty sexn55 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 108
Join Date: Jan 2014
Car: n55
Default 01-17-2018, 11:51 AM

Pure turbo is a good company hope you get fix soon


2011 E82,n55 ,6mt
Stage 3+ Clutch and alumni fly wheel
Vrsf down pipe
Vrsf charge pipe
Vrsf fmic "5 inch
Jb4 , fuel flex wire and Bluetooth connection
New water pump and thermostat
Bms air intake
Meth kit cm10 60/40
E85 50/50
Stage 2 fuel pump
Pure stage 2
Ecs Lightweight Front and rear Brake Rotors brake pads
New o2 sensor
New transmission oil MTL red line
Motor oil MoTul 8100
Reply With Quote
(#4)
Old
keyap keyap is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,639
Join Date: Jun 2012
Car: N55 135i
Default 01-17-2018, 02:22 PM

In the log, wgdc represents the demand for boost, with 100 being the max.

As you're at 100 with v low psi that would normally indicate a boost leak. If it is a leak, it's a big one so hopefully something simple like a pipe off.

If it's not easy to locate then try smoke testing.


UK 2011 - E82- 135i - N55 - DCT

JB4 | BMS OCC | N20 TMap | Fuel-It! PI | AIC6 PI Controller | Fuel-It! Fuel Lines | Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP | Continental In-line E Sensor | ER Charge Pipe | Pure Stage 2 Turbo | Pure High Flow Inlet | GFB DV+ | Richter C'less D/Pipe | MFactory Pro Helical LSD (75% Bias Ratio) | eDiff Disabled Via Coding | MFactory Solid Diff Bushes | Diff Lockdown Bracket | Custom 98G0B BEF | NGK 5992s (0.020")


DD Map 7 at 20psi. Map 6 at 25psi for 'kill mode'

Last edited by keyap; 01-17-2018 at 02:44 PM..
Reply With Quote
(#5)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-17-2018, 03:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyap
In the log, wgdc represents the demand for boost, with 100 being the max.

As you're at 100 with v low psi that would normally indicate a boost leak. If it is a leak, it's a big one so hopefully something simple like a pipe off.

If it's not easy to locate then try smoke testing.
Yeah, I noticed WGDC.

I was under the impression most boost leaks would cause weirder behavior than the smooth but low curve I get. It was pretty weird when my charge pipe connector blew off once and then was pressing against it. This acts more like a hole in the side of a pipe. My theory was the wastegate is stuck open, but everyone says boost leak.

I get a persistent code for "electric fan disconnected", but I assume that's unrelated. (Plan to get that taken care of too.) At least once I got "blow-off valve jammed shut", which is reportedly a normal tuner code but I don't know why it is.

When it's figured out I'll post news.
Reply With Quote
(#6)
Old
Weehe Weehe is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 648
Join Date: Jun 2014
Car: E90 335i
Default 01-17-2018, 04:17 PM

Probably have a wastegate vac line off or a bad boost solenoid.
Reply With Quote
(#7)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-17-2018, 05:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weehe
Probably have a wastegate vac line off or a bad boost solenoid.
I think it would be a freak occurrence for the solenoid to be good on the way to the shop and bad on the way home.

Is the wastegate actuator vacuum line attachment accessible from the top without taking too much apart? The weather sucks and I don't want to roll around on the ground.
Reply With Quote
(#8)
Old
Bimmer_Boost's Avatar
Bimmer_Boost Bimmer_Boost is offline
Legend
 
Posts: 1,062
Join Date: Oct 2014
Car: 2011 e92 335i
Default 01-17-2018, 05:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi rpm
Prior to having the PS2 installed, I was at max 14psi, with FMIC and E30, and it ran great. The only problem was the standard stock turbo underperformance at high revs. So I upgraded, and since having the PS2 installed, it feels like a true economy car up to about 3500 rpm, and slightly faster at 5000.

I contacted Pure, and a few days after sending the logs they requested I got a response that 95% of the time it's a boost leak (Which it may be if it's the diverter or outlet, but there weren't any elsewhere), there are a lot of incorrect installs, and essentially "your professional mechanic can diagnose it" (para). I hadn't personally heard you could wreck it by not adjusting it prior to install, and it doesn't come with any instructions.

Now I plan to have the installer, a well-reputed independent mechanic, do that, and who knows how much more it will cost to fix, if it can be fixed. I thought I would post this in case it's happened to someone else they can tell me an easy fix, and also as a precautionary tale that things can definitely go wrong. If I had it to do over again I would drive 1500 miles to have Pure install it so that no one could pass the buck. (Manufacturer blames installer, installer blames manufacturer, I pay the bills.) It is the kind of upgrade I want; I just wish it worked.

A JB4 log is attached showing the smooth pull all the way up to 2.9 psi.
If it an installation error then the shop shouldn't charge you for the fix. If something broke (turbo to intercooler plastic pipe) after the install then you would understandably have to pay for it. Most boost leaks are at the chargepipe or the turbo outlet pipe. This would be a large leak and should be easy to spot.


2011 E92 335i Auto
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
12.6 @ 112MPH 92 Octane | 11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD
Back to stock

2014 E84 X1 35i 13.9 @ 99MPH 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ
ER Chargepipe | BMS Intake |
Reply With Quote
(#9)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-17-2018, 06:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Boost
If it an installation error then the shop shouldn't charge you for the fix...
Even if they didn't want to I would feel pretty bad about them taking an xdrive turbo out again for free. Not that I know it's that severe, but me not knowing things like that is why I paid someone else to do it.
Reply With Quote
(#10)
Old
Bimmer_Boost's Avatar
Bimmer_Boost Bimmer_Boost is offline
Legend
 
Posts: 1,062
Join Date: Oct 2014
Car: 2011 e92 335i
Default 01-17-2018, 06:08 PM

It would have had to be broken when installed or upon first start up to have a need to remove the turbo. It should be a simple fix once the leak is identified. My point is if they made the mistake during installation they shouldn't have an issue doing the fix for free. Do you have an aftermarket intercooler? Was it installed before the turbo? My boost leak was the turbo outlet after installing the VRSF intercooler.


2011 E92 335i Auto
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
12.6 @ 112MPH 92 Octane | 11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD
Back to stock

2014 E84 X1 35i 13.9 @ 99MPH 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ
ER Chargepipe | BMS Intake |
Reply With Quote
(#11)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-17-2018, 06:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Boost
It would have had to be broken when installed or upon first start up to have a need to remove the turbo. It should be a simple fix once the leak is identified. My point is if they made the mistake during installation they shouldn't have an issue doing the fix for free. Do you have an aftermarket intercooler? Was it installed before the turbo? My boost leak was the turbo outlet after installing the VRSF intercooler.
Yeah, I put the FMIC in months ago, which came with a silicone intercooler inlet which hose-clamps onto the turbo outlet pipe. As I've said though to me the car isn't acting like it has a typical boost leak because it's so stable. And wouldn't I hear the turbo screaming at like a million rpm if the turbine was operating fine but the compressor had no resistance?

I do think the issue was present at first start up, I just don't think the mechanic noticed it because he only did a limited test drive in poor weather. I didn't notice it until on the highway.
Reply With Quote
(#12)
Old
Bimmer_Boost's Avatar
Bimmer_Boost Bimmer_Boost is offline
Legend
 
Posts: 1,062
Join Date: Oct 2014
Car: 2011 e92 335i
Default 01-17-2018, 06:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi rpm
Yeah, I put the FMIC in months ago, which came with a silicone intercooler inlet which hose-clamps onto the turbo outlet pipe. As I've said though to me the car isn't acting like it has a typical boost leak because it's so stable. And wouldn't I hear the turbo screaming at like a million rpm if the turbine was operating fine but the compressor had no resistance?

I do think the issue was present at first start up, I just don't think the mechanic noticed it because he only did a limited test drive in poor weather. I didn't notice it until on the highway.
My boost leak was flat and smooth. The WGDC was 100% the entire time but I was able to hit my target.


2011 E92 335i Auto
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
12.6 @ 112MPH 92 Octane | 11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD
Back to stock

2014 E84 X1 35i 13.9 @ 99MPH 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ
ER Chargepipe | BMS Intake |
Reply With Quote
(#13)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-17-2018, 06:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Boost
My boost leak was flat and smooth. The WGDC was 100% the entire time but I was able to hit my target.
Unable, right? Interesting, thanks for the report.
Reply With Quote
(#14)
Old
Bimmer_Boost's Avatar
Bimmer_Boost Bimmer_Boost is offline
Legend
 
Posts: 1,062
Join Date: Oct 2014
Car: 2011 e92 335i
Default 01-17-2018, 06:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi rpm
Unable, right? Interesting, thanks for the report.
I was able to. My boost leak was not that big. When I did a boost leak test you could start to hear it at 1 psi though. At 20 psi the turbo was working as hard as it could.

Name:  Able.jpg
Views: 208
Size:  112.7 KB


2011 E92 335i Auto
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
12.6 @ 112MPH 92 Octane | 11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD
Back to stock

2014 E84 X1 35i 13.9 @ 99MPH 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ
ER Chargepipe | BMS Intake |
Reply With Quote
(#15)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-17-2018, 06:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnm135i
Could be a JB4/connection issue. You could get that amount of boost with 0 WGDC.
And 0 WGDC is the same as a wastegate that's permanently in the open position for a mechanical reason, right? Not closing for some reason, like a vacuum line as suggested.

A JB4 issue, like a boost solenoid issue, would be a one in a million coincidence since it was fine before and shouldn't have been involved in the procedure.
Reply With Quote
(#16)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-17-2018, 07:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnm135i
Lets say that the JB4 is requesting WGDC 100 but the signal never reach the solenoid...? I believe WG is default closed on the N55 but if no vacuum is applied it will most likely be pushed open by the exhaust gasses and create enough resistance to make those 3psi. Not sure this is correct at all - just trying to think logically about it
I thought it was default open and WGDC represents the action of closing it. I guess I know the feeling.

Quote:
But checking WG functionallity is easy. Take the ** off and change the DWP setting.
I hear you have to pull a subframe for that on xdrive...
Reply With Quote
(#17)
Old
Peter @ Pure's Avatar
Peter @ Pure Peter @ Pure is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,710
Join Date: Aug 2013
Car: F20 M135i
Default 01-18-2018, 01:24 AM

If no boost leak I would check the wastegate actuator.


F21 M140i - currently stock
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.9, 60-130: 5.6
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
peter@pureturbos.eu
peter@pureturbos.com
peter@protuningfreaks.com
pureturbos.eu
Reply With Quote
(#18)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-18-2018, 03:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter @ Pure
If no boost leak I would check the wastegate actuator.
I asked someone else here but no reply yet: Is the vaccuum line attachment accessible from the top without taking too much apart? I could see forgetting to put that on, or having it pop off right after.
Reply With Quote
(#19)
Old
Peter @ Pure's Avatar
Peter @ Pure Peter @ Pure is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,710
Join Date: Aug 2013
Car: F20 M135i
Default 01-18-2018, 03:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi rpm
I asked someone else here but no reply yet: Is the vaccuum line attachment accessible from the top without taking too much apart? I could see forgetting to put that on, or having it pop off right after.
its easy to check from the bottom as well with the undertray removed.


F21 M140i - currently stock
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.9, 60-130: 5.6
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
peter@pureturbos.eu
peter@pureturbos.com
peter@protuningfreaks.com
pureturbos.eu
Reply With Quote
(#20)
Old
jturboawd jturboawd is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 592
Join Date: Apr 2014
Car: 135i
Default 01-18-2018, 04:40 AM

wastegate is default open. Solenoid modulates signal to actuator on WG. Boost leak, solenoid, vacuum line all possible. I use a compressor, regulator, and home depot set up to check system to 20psi. Just pop off intake and close off the system there and pressurize. This wont pic up vacuum leaks. Since you are getting some boost I am thinking leak or electronic.

Pure tests there turbos and should have a build sheet per serial number of unit. If installer damaged turbo during install enough to not make boost I dont think it would make any. Hard to think of what damage they could do other than not install correctly or mechanically damage compressor blade which would be hard to do without significant negligence

youll get to the bottom, just test the systems. When you get it figured out you are going to really enjoy it. They are pretty bullet proof for hybrids.


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7
Reply With Quote
(#21)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-18-2018, 05:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jturboawd
youll get to the bottom, just test the systems. When you get it figured out you are going to really enjoy it. They are pretty bullet proof for hybrids.
I hope so. Messing around on forums just now I find out the later PWG N55s have lower capacity HPFPs. If I have fuel problems with conservative boost I am going to be seriously peeved. All that stuff--small turbine, hard to access/crack DMEs, now fuel--I'm sure it was just to make the 335 slower than M cars. Well BMW, you didn't make awd M cars and I don't like sliding sideways into ditches.
Reply With Quote
(#22)
Old
jturboawd jturboawd is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 592
Join Date: Apr 2014
Car: 135i
Default 01-18-2018, 05:48 AM

Ill save you some time. If you want decent boost your going to need supplemental fuel. . Not sure what your goals are, but I would say 93 pump is good for clean 15psi. People will tell you all sort, youll have to base on logs. I pretty much immediately needed more. If your goals are low you can run this or some light meth. N54 N55 are great, but you need boost and fuel. Typically order goes tune, boost, fuel, tune, traction.


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7
Reply With Quote
(#23)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-18-2018, 06:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jturboawd
Ill save you some time. If you want decent boost your going to need supplemental fuel. . Not sure what your goals are, but I would say 93 pump is good for clean 15psi. People will tell you all sort, youll have to base on logs. I pretty much immediately needed more. If your goals are low you can run this or some light meth. N54 N55 are great, but you need boost and fuel. Typically order goes tune, boost, fuel, tune, traction.
My goal is 15psi at 5000+, but I've been using pump E30 (94-95 octane). My reasons for that are keeping torque low to save components, and having a margin of error so I don't have to worry about problems appearing, like detonation and low fuel flow. But it looks like I do have to worry about the last one.

When its working properly, the plan will be to keep upping the boost and log until it goes wrong, and if 16 works I'll dial it back to 15. Fingers crossed.
Reply With Quote
(#24)
Old
KevinC39 KevinC39 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 247
Join Date: Apr 2016
Car: 11 335i 6MT RWD
Default 01-18-2018, 07:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi rpm
Well BMW, you didn't make awd M cars and I don't like sliding sideways into ditches.
Keep traction control on

But yep, we all run out of fuel eventually. Biggest downside to this platform right now in my opinion.


2011 E90 335i RWD 6 Speed
FBO JB4 MHD
Reply With Quote
(#25)
Old
hi rpm hi rpm is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 2013 335i Xdrive Coupe
Default 01-18-2018, 08:59 AM

I managed to get a look at the actuator and I presume the vac line. It looks suspiciously askew: It's definitely at less than a 45 degree angle from the front face of the actuator within a half inch. No use trying to get my hand down there. Is that angle abnormal, as in is it probably disconnected?
ROUGH sketch:





Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC39
Keep traction control on

But yep, we all run out of fuel eventually. Biggest downside to this platform right now in my opinion.
Traction control, sounds slow.

I'm whining because I did a lot of research before buying a turbo, and the lowest reported max boost with stock fueling was 16 for E N55. Now I don't know.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2007 - 2017, N54tech.com