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doug@frankenturbo.com 02-04-2016 02:07 AM

FrankenTurbo
 
I’d like to introduce myself. I’m Doug Harper. And I run a company called FrankenTurbo. For the last few years we’ve had some success offering hybrid turbochargers to the Audi/VW market. Our products can be found on 1.8T four cylinders as well as the more recent 2.0T direct-port injection engines. Plus we have a number of our products running around on V6 2.7T twin—turbo cars. The Audi S4. That market has been key to our company’s success.

For some time now, our dealers have been asking, “when will you have a product for us to sell into the N54 engines?” Well, we listened to those requests and started researching. And what we found is a market with huge potential for the kind of turbos we make. Yes, there are quite a few strong options available already. I recognize that. But none of them quite reach the Goldilocks level of performance and value that we represent. So we made the commitment to invest in the research and development necessary to offer a successful turbo. And we named that turbo the F23Bi.

Our F23Bi will be powerful. It will be reliable. It will be affordable. But most importantly, it will be fun. In other words it will have all the attributes that have led to thousands of cars running our turbos worldwide.

While we move forward on the development of product, I am creating this thread to show some insight into my thought process on performance modification for this platform. I have a lot of ideas. But I also have quite a few questions. This is a wholly new motor for me and my company, and I’m not going to pretend omniscience. In fact, the process of learning is what drives me forward in my livelihood. I love encountering something I didn’t know. I expect that to happen frequently during this process.

Now, rather than talk about what we’ve “got up our sleeves”, I’m firstly going to start right at the beginning: a bone stock car. The N54 came from the factory with a respectable 300hp rating. But currently we've got FrankenTurbos that can deliver more than that level with the smaller – and older -- VW 1.8T. On the newer 2.0L engines, ones which share direct-injection with this 3.0L, we can reliably get 400hp. So it looks to me this engine comes from the factory as a serious underachiever.

To find out why, we got our hands on a gently-driven 335i. We threw in a JB4 harness/controller and opened our Windows laptop to datalog it. Here’s what we found:

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...Map0-boost.jpg

EIGHT lousy PSI? It’s a wonder this engine can produce that much power on such limp-wristed boost! And so even at 300hp, this car, with its leggy 3.08 final drive ratio, feels really slow. Third gear is a real test of intestinal fortitude: will this car EVER reach 7000rpms? Based on a calculation of time to speed from 4200 to 6500, it’s pretty darned “unhurried”.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...stock_FATs.jpg

So enough of stock performance. We’ve got the baseline. Time to move on to the upped power levels of the JB4 mapping system. As virtually all of you probably know, the JB4 piggyback controller offers several flavors of performance. With the click of the mouse (or flick of the driver-column control stalk) you can raise power modestly or aggressively. The choice depends on your driving style and the car’s modifications. The first tier up from stock is named Map1. Burger Motorsports’ documentation says this file is suitable for just about any hardware, provided quality Premium gas. We’re running 92oct here in Oregon, so I think that’s covered. Let’s have a look at the change in boost behavior:

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...Map1-boost.jpg

Well, alright. At least we’re now getting boost levels in the double-digits. No more safe-for-granny. How does this translate to our time-to-speed values?

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...-Map1_FATs.jpg

More than two seconds faster. That’s impressive. That’s the kind of performance improvement I can get behind! For a more graphic depiction, have a look at the difference in a… well… a graph.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...4-Map1_TTS.jpg

Off to a good start, I immediately decided to be greedy and load the JB4 “Map2” onto the controller. Technically, this mapping is for modified cars. With ******* *********, upgraded intercoolers and such. But this car feels eager and the friendly February ambient temps led me to take a shot.

Here is the boost profile on map2, compared to map1.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...Map2-boost.jpg

Not so very different. Not really the kind of change which screams: BEWARE. And ignition advance is right at the same level, although the ignition averages are showing a hint of knock lurking around. Here is a look at those two values graphed for Map1 and Map2.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...ap2-timing.jpg

Here, with timing advance and the way it gets reported on these ECUs – uh, DMEs – I’ve arrived a little outside of what I’m used to in the VW/Audi engines. Timing advance and correction factors aren’t directly reported on these cars. Instead we have a value called “Average Ignition Retard”, which is a telltale, an indicator of how well the engine is accepting the software mapping. But there is no data stream for actual timing pull events. So to deduce any problems a tuner has to study the ignition advance curve for abrupt drops in values. If the data show quick irregularities, those are likely instances of engine knock.

Overall, our stock-hardware car seems up to the task of Map2. The only sign of weakness is with intake temperatures. The stock intercooler is showing some strain, even at the 45-50˚ ambients present during these logging sessions.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont..._Map2-IATs.jpg

So as long as the weather cooperates, it looks as though Map2 is working on the car. In fact, it’s now running 4200-6500 in less than four seconds.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...-Map2_FATs.jpg

And if that’s the case, where to start modding? Is there more boost to be had with upgrades? Based on the data for requests/versus actuals it kind of doesn’t look like it.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...ts_actuals.jpg

And the stock turbos are meeting requests quite easily. Boost duty values, based on a scale of 0-100%, are without a doubt modest.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont..._Map2-PWMs.jpg

So if the turbos are unstressed by Map2 and the other data points show no signs of trouble, how do we get more from the engine? We’re already venturing into mapping levels intended for modded cars, but the stock hardware seems to be holding up fine. The JB4 map menu has files for water meth and race gas. Those are too much for a stock setup and aren’t applicable. But there IS Map5, which appears to be the most aggressive, yet sophisticated. Here is a quote from Burger Motorsport’s documentation:
Map 5: Autotuning map. Boost ranges between 12-17psi based on your cars octane, conditions, and modifications. Fully E85 compatible. If using E85 we suggest around 30% to start. Refer to the E85 FAQ for addl info. Resets to 93 octane level adaptions when selected and adjusts itself up or down from there.
Will that map do us better? If I’m interpreting things correctly, the IGN Avg values we’re seeing in Map2 aren’t currently impacting the DME’s behavior. They’re there, but having no influence. But if we switch to Map5 will things change? Will the actual values be impacted? And given the “adaptive” boost profile of Map5, what will we see versus the “dumb” Maps 1 & 2?

My rough understanding of the JB4 system is that it masks certain parameters to fool the engine into thinking the work being done – engine load – is a value pre-determined by the piggyback. And if you look at the load values for Map1 and Map 2 next to one another, that appears to the be the case.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont..._Map2-load.jpg

So with these two entry-level maps, the DME calculates no difference in load, even while the performance is demonstrably unalike. But what about Map5? With the added awareness that it apparently has, how will things change?

That’s the first question I have for this thread. And in posing it I will make this disclaimer: I’m not a tuner. I’m a turbocharger manufacturer. So while I take an interest in how electronic engine management impacts my hardware, I don’t claim expertise in that discipline. Given past experience, I'll probably to have to repeat that caveat early and often. But I’ve gotten it out there now, and in that framework, hope to earn the community’s involvement in this public work-in-progress.

Thanks,

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo

nyt 02-04-2016 04:28 AM

Step 1) Get MHD and Flash MHD back end map to go along with that JB4
Step 2) Use JB4 for logging. JB4 influences the reported load.

For the rest of mods... ***, charge pipe, inlets, intercooler, fuel-it stage 3, port injection, etc. The stock turbos are capable of about 600ftlbs of torque and 500whp when pushed.

iminhell1 02-04-2016 04:49 AM

JB4 Map 1 vs Maps 2-7:




http://img.memecdn.com/Sexy-Graph_o_96829.jpg

Enfiftyfore 02-04-2016 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyt (Post )
Step 1) Get MHD and Flash MHD back end map to go along with that JB4
Step 2) Use JB4 for logging. JB4 influences the reported load.

For the rest of mods... ***, charge pipe, inlets, intercooler, fuel-it stage 3, port injection, etc. The stock turbos are capable of about 600ftlbs of torque and 500whp when pushed.

+1

Ps, I am a former B5 S4 owner. I knew lots of guys with FrankenTurbos and they all performed really well. I'm excited to see what you can offer this community.

johnmaps 02-04-2016 05:49 AM

welcome , looking forward to your products

johmei 02-04-2016 05:57 AM

Always fun and interesting with new guys coming in with new perspective. Heard a lot good of the frankenturbos so hopefully you will speed R&D up and get to the good stuff soon! There are a lot of information on these forums to get you started. You are however well behind so make sure to do your homework on the latest advances in terms of hardware such as headers, inlets, outlets, etc. As tuning is open today you shouldn't have a hard time finding someone to help with tuning.

Anytyme 02-04-2016 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enfiftyfore (Post )
+1

Ps, I am a former B5 S4 owner. I knew lots of guys with FrankenTurbos and they all performed really well. I'm excited to see what you can offer this community.

+1 I had a stage 3 setup I do miss her at times but don't miss the problems lol.

BeatupVR4 02-04-2016 06:59 AM

My gf had a B5 1.8 Avant with a Frankenturbo + a bunch of other mods and it put down 275awhp on a local dyno and was a blast to daily. She beat the snot out of that car and it never had any issues.

bigdnno98 02-04-2016 07:04 AM

Welcome. And good luck.

rhodesman 02-04-2016 07:24 AM

I love how we are getting more and more options for these engines! :happy I too had a VW 1.8 with a FranklenT, can't wait to see what you bring to the N54 market!! :burnrubber:

FCobra94 02-04-2016 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iminhell1 (Post )

:lol

justa335i 02-04-2016 07:57 AM

Make us some non smokey turbo kits and you will be welcome!

doug@frankenturbo.com 02-05-2016 12:28 AM

Getting a better handle on timing advance values
 
Out of the box, the JB4 logger is saddled with BMW's idiosyncratic approach to recording timing advance. From what I can tell, the standard OBD data point is solely for cylinder #1. I'm guessing this is just for diagnostic simplification but it leaves a little to be desired when tuning. Luckily I happened across this thread by BMS which documents their workaround.

After having coded the "Juicebox" PC interface, voila! Active reporting across all cylinders. With this in hand, I let the engine sit running at idle until things under the hood were nice and toasty, then did a wide open throttle Map2 pull. Here's the damage:

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...ng_advance.jpg

Activating full timing advance monitoring is simply a matter of coding in the right value on the "User Adjustments" tab, seen here.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...adjustment.jpg

Burger's documentation indicates a pretty decent utility for this adjustments field. Depending on the value entered, the controller can record either net timing advance or the timing corrections factor. If that's the case, the ability to monitor timing pull by cylinder is a big bonus for this tuning product.

dh






johmei 02-05-2016 02:10 AM

This is a good JB4 Quick Start Guide. :-)

FYI, OBD loggers handle all cylinder timing just fine.

snagz 02-05-2016 12:03 PM

Doug,

Welcome! I'm excited to see your name pop up here. I had a B5 S4 as well before my 535i. FrankenTurbo is regarded by most as the de facto choice for turbo upgrades on that platform. Can't wait to see what you guys come up with for the n54.

PR3CI5N335i 02-05-2016 03:58 PM

I thought this was going to be a new turbo thread and instead it's how to use your JB4 101 :sleep:

ShocknAwe 02-05-2016 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR3CI5N335i (Post )
I thought this was going to be a new turbo thread and instead it's how to use your JB4 101 :sleep:

Pretty sure he's just documenting everything. Kind of nice to see the journey, and could be a good resource for new folks too.

08_335i 02-05-2016 05:30 PM

I ran Doug's f21 kit on my 1.8t, and I can easily say that he was the beat vendor I've ever dealt with. I would assume there was easily over 1k emails between the two of us having to do with pre sale, post sale, and tuning the f21 kit. He's a seriously great dude and will do nothing but bring positive information, questions, and HOPEFULLY -wink wink doug- some good Frankenturbo products! As people have said, create some successful nonsmoking turbos and you'll be a huge success here. Super excites to see you stepping into this platform, I know it'll be nothing but good stuff from you!

Lurcher99 02-06-2016 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe (Post )
Pretty sure he's just documenting everything. Kind of nice to see the journey, and could be a good resource for new folks too.


Yes, a very good journey for us new modders. Interesting to see all of this still on stock hardware, as I'm still hesitant to remove my stock c@ts due to smog testing (DFW area), but want to upgrade the intake side of things with a software solution.

doug@frankenturbo.com 02-06-2016 02:46 PM

I glossed over the installation process for the JB4, so I need to cover that. But here's a look at the final installation: a simple USB line that allows seamless interface to a MacBook Pro running Parallels. In multiple logging sessions I have not seen a single crash or connection drop. This is the most stable connection to a controller I've ever experienced. Kudos to Burger Motorsports.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...ox_Macbook.jpg

08_335i 02-06-2016 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug@frankenturbo.com (Post )
I glossed over the installation process for the JB4, so I need to cover that. But here's a look at the final installation: a simple USB line that allows seamless interface to a MacBook Pro running Parallels. In multiple logging sessions I have not seen a single crash or connection drop. This is the most stable connection to a controller I've ever experienced. Kudos to Burger Motorsports.

http://www.frankenturbo.com/web-cont...ox_Macbook.jpg

You mean you don't miss eurodyne crashing EVERY time you are in dead middle of a log??

guru_method 02-06-2016 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug@frankenturbo.com (Post )
I glossed over the installation process for the JB4, so I need to cover that. But here's a look at the final installation: a simple USB line that allows seamless interface to a MacBook Pro running Parallels.

You can also use the JB4 App that runs natively on the Mac, very good alternative to people that don't have environment for Windows.

rac 02-06-2016 08:28 PM

Doug, can you expand on your objective of bringing the Goldilocks balance of performance and value to this market? I interpret that as you want to do the same for less.

08_335i 02-06-2016 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rac (Post )
Doug, can you expand on your objective of bringing the Goldilocks balance of performance and value to this market? I interpret that as you want to do the same for less.

Check out their site. They make amazing upgraded hybrid turbos for 1.8t's, 2.0t's, S4's, mini coopers etc. I ran one on my old 1.8t and the car was a blast and the turbo never skipped a beat on me. And I beat the piss out of it for a solid 8k miles at 30psi before ****ty valve springs dropped cylinder #4. I know Doug and Fturbo pretty well, and I'm assuming they plan on dropping some good upgraded twins into the picture.

rac 02-07-2016 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 08_335i (Post )
Check out their site. They make amazing upgraded hybrid turbos for 1.8t's, 2.0t's, S4's, mini coopers etc. I ran one on my old 1.8t and the car was a blast and the turbo never skipped a beat on me. And I beat the piss out of it for a solid 8k miles at 30psi before ****ty valve springs dropped cylinder #4. I know Doug and Fturbo pretty well, and I'm assuming they plan on dropping some good upgraded twins into the picture.

There are a lot of hybrid options for virtually all performance windows that could be expected from a hybrid. So unless it's coming to market at the lowest cost, I don't understand the Goldilocks statement.


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